Legacies Project Oral History: Sue Burton

Mon, 08/29/2022 - 12:22pm

When: 2022

Transcript

[00:00:11] INTERVIEWER: If not, you can just feel free to pass.
[00:00:14] Sue Burton: We're just saying if there needs to be any corrections or memories or something?
[00:00:18] INTERVIEWER: Yeah. I'm just going to ask some of the questions that we did in the previous interview, but if you've done the writing feel free to say that. I'll just move on. This is an interview for the Legacies project which our students gather early histories and grade them into archives for future generations. Now it's time to turn off your cell phones, pagers or anything else that beeps, chimes or otherwise makes noises.
[00:00:53] Sue Burton: No, I better check my phone. I had mine on too. Just reach in there and look for it.
[00:01:05] INTERVIEWER: [BACKGROUND] Anyone can calibrate anytime that you would want one. Also, please remember that you can decline to answer any question or terminate the interview at any time without any reason [NOISE] Now we can begin, the first part of your interview beginning with some things that you can recall about your family history. Or beginning with family naming history, I actually mean your last name or family name or family traditions is something first or male names. Do you know, any stories about your family name?
[00:01:55] Sue Burton: No more than some of the history as far as where they're from. Not any particular stories.
[00:02:05] INTERVIEWER: Are there any name traditions in your family?
[00:02:08] Sue Burton: Names and traditions. I have two great uncles that were Buffalo Soldiers in United States Army.
[00:02:19] INTERVIEWER: Why did your ancestors need to come to the United States?
[00:02:22] Sue Burton: They never left. They were always here.
[00:02:26] INTERVIEWER: Do you know any stories about your family first came to the United States and where did they settle?
[00:02:33] Sue Burton: As far as I know, my folks have always lived in the area of Ohio.
[00:02:44] INTERVIEWER: How did they make a living either in the old country or in the United States?
[00:02:48] Sue Burton: Well, in the United States. My paternal grandfather was a plaster. My maternal grandfather was a butler and a driver, and the ladies were housewives, I should say.
[00:03:10] INTERVIEWER: What possessions did they bring with them or carry with the family?
[00:03:17] Sue Burton: Possessions? That I don't know. I don't remember them bringing anything. They were always here.
[00:03:24] INTERVIEWER: Is there anything that was passed down to the family in terms of materialistic things?
[00:03:30] Sue Burton: Not that I can recall of them at the present.
[00:03:34] INTERVIEWER: Which family members came along or stayed behind?
[00:03:39] Sue Burton: They all stayed here. They were just either Indians or Black.
[00:03:44] INTERVIEWER: To your knowledge, did they make an effort to preserve any traditions or customs from their country of origin?
[00:03:52] Sue Burton: No more than religion. That was for both sides of the family.
[00:03:58] INTERVIEWER: Are there traditions that your family has given up or changed?
[00:04:02] Sue Burton: Not that I know of. [NOISE]
[00:04:06] INTERVIEWER: What stories have come down to you about your parents and grandparents?
[00:04:13] Sue Burton: I can't think of anything off hand.
[00:04:18] INTERVIEWER: Or how did your parents, grandparents, or other relatives come to meet and marry?
[00:04:22] Sue Burton: As far as I know, my grandfather was from the Southern part of Ohio. This is the paternal grandfather. His wife was from the Northern part of Ohio really, an Indian reservation area. She was a combination of Black and Indian.
[00:04:48] INTERVIEWER: Was it taboo at time to have two different types of cultures and everything?
[00:04:56] Sue Burton: Well, at that time, my paternal grandfather, my father's father his relatives were White and Black. He comes from Portsmouth, Ohio area, which is South of where we are now. That's all I can say about that side of the family, which meant that my father at some point had relatives that were White. But my grandfather's grandmother was a White lady who had children by a Black man and she stayed with the black man and she carried her last name, which was Aries.
[00:05:44] INTERVIEWER: Is there any particular reason why they kept her last name?
[00:05:47] Sue Burton: I have no idea. None at all.
[00:05:57] INTERVIEWER: What languages were spoken in or around your household?
[00:06:00] Sue Burton: English.
[00:06:04] INTERVIEWER: Where different languages spoken in different settings such as at home or in the neighborhood or on the stores?
[00:06:10] Sue Burton: No, all the same, English.
[00:06:13] INTERVIEWER: What was your family like when you were a child?
[00:06:16] Sue Burton: It was fun. [LAUGHTER] All depend on which side of the family. On my grandmother's side of the family, it was like a happy gathering, because we would go like 14 miles to visit her and the cousins and they went and lived in that Hamilton, Ohio. For my father's parents, they lived around the corner from us and we looked forward Christmas time. They had a big house and big tree and we also had the same but not the same size house. But we also had a tree and the whole bit, but we always gathered at their house at Christmas time. My grandfather had a habit of wanting to show off his height. He would kick to the ceiling. Just we'll always wait to see if he could still kick his foot and touch the ceiling. Those days the ceilings were lower than with the other day anyway.
[00:07:16] INTERVIEWER: Do you think that the different cultures, having an Indian and African American, that makes him do that lead to any new traditions, like in Christmas did you have any traditions that incorporated both?
[00:07:30] Sue Burton: No. It was the same as far as Americans, just American holidays. That's all. It was nothing different about either one of them.
[00:07:44] INTERVIEWER: What was your family like when you were a child?
[00:07:48] Sue Burton: Fun, again, [LAUGHTER] we had to be in a certain time of the day, not there by dark, then you didn't not have dinner. Or else my brother would get a spanking, which was quite often. [LAUGHTER] He could care less if he's out doing something in the rest of the type of way. But as a rule, we were always together and my father had a tendency to take us different places that we've not been before and foot first times and then would take us to different places like Cincinnati and Indianapolis and dating in Columbus, Ohio to the fairs and things like that, so we had a good childhood.
[00:08:32] INTERVIEWER: Is there any particular story that you still remember like it was yesterday or something like that?
[00:08:39] Sue Burton: Well, one of the stories I can remember Christmas, I got a bicycle. My dad took me out on the sidewalk to ride it and show me how to hold it and everything. He held on to me in the back of the bike and I was riding along, having a good time. Then I realized he's not there. That I was riding all this time by myself. That was his way of teaching us how to ride bikes and same with my brother. He did the same thing with him too.
[00:09:11] INTERVIEWER: Last time you said that religion is a big part of how you grew up. How did your parents focus on having religion as an important aspect, but also to be accepting of other people's religions. How is that in your house, like treated us.
[00:09:27] Sue Burton: The only difference in the religion was that there was a Baptist and like there was a Methodist as far as the Blacks were concerned. But the point is that we had to respect people, not so much religion as people whether it's the town drunk or the garbage man or the policeman actually. But we had to respect each and every person and adults. In other words, it's not like today.
[00:09:58] INTERVIEWER: What were some of the things that your parents said right away. That these are the rules or these are the traditions or this is what we expect of you. Did they expect your will is that like.
[00:10:10] Sue Burton: They didn't have to do that. You were taught different things as you grew. It was understood that you listen to other people, other adults, and you copied after them as far as manners and things like that. Unless you did something that was out ordinary, you'd say, look, don't do that no more. Or if you really were doing something on purpose, then like I said again, then you're sent to bed without dinner, or you might get a spanking. Or you might not be able to do maybe go to a party or anything like that. That would be, I want to call it torture, but it wasn't. As a kid, it was a torture, but that's how we were punished. Girls didn't get spankings. Just the guys. Sorry. [LAUGHTER]
[00:11:08] INTERVIEWER: I remember the last time of the interview you mentioned your parenting divorce. How did that affect the family dynamic? Did it affect your family dynamic?
[00:11:16] Sue Burton: Indeed it did. The way it really affected, well, you say the family, I had a baby sister at that time also. But she was maybe like 14, 15. About 14, I think. No, not that, eight I think. I was concerned about her as a big sister. My brother by then had gone into the service and the part that bothered me more was the gossip and the talking. Sometimes you heard it, sometime you didn't so you suspected that people were talking about our parents. But other than that, we were home with my dad because my dad could afford us where my mother had gone to live with her mother, and since her mother was of age, she went and took care of her. But other than that, it was just the, like say gossip kids tease and were very cruel at that time also. That's what I went through, was in high school during that time.
[00:12:26] INTERVIEWER: Being separated from your mom, how did that affect growing up and who you are now?
[00:12:35] Sue Burton: Taught me how to take care of myself. Even though I was home, I had my own bedroom, we had our own everything, we haven't lost anything by them being separated. I was always at my mom's on the weekends. My father had a business in that town, so every Friday after school he would take us down and stay till Sunday night, come back. It's just 14 miles from where we were living.
[00:13:09] INTERVIEWER: In some divorce cases, kids either grow further apart with their parents after the divorce or closer together. What was it for you?
[00:13:20] Sue Burton: Neither. We stayed with both of them. We love them both, and we were treated the same. It wasn't like I don't like you because you are with your dad or I don't like you because of mom. I can remember my grandmother saying, she doesn't need to go down there and talked my father's mother. He says she can go whenever she gets ready. I remember him saying that, and they didn't know that I heard that conversation. One of those things that there's no division at all between my parents and us.
[00:13:55] INTERVIEWER: You taking care of your sister and leaving close to her. How did it affect you seeing her affect at this young age out the divorce?
[00:14:07] Sue Burton: I mean, it could have bothered her but I didn't see it. I do believe it might have bothered her, but I just did not see that. All I saw was that we were going to school and coming home and doing what we had to do. I've never seen anything that affected her.
[00:14:24] INTERVIEWER: Did it change your friends and who they were?
[00:14:29] Sue Burton: We had the same friends. Went school every day with the same friends, same parents. Some parents were very good to me. They're very understanding and were more comforting to me. There was a lady that was a friend of my mother's, lived about a block from us, and Mrs. Warren, and she always wanted to know how I was doing and if I need anything to talk with her.
[00:15:00] INTERVIEWER: Did that community affect help you go to your character? Did that help you because of who you are based on people caring for you?
[00:15:12] Sue Burton: Well, indeed. It really did. These kids have come from the South that were looked up on as trash, poor. This was either black or white kids and I always liked all of them. I don't know why. But I guess most of them, I was a little older than them and so we became friends and I became friends with their families. It was just something that affected me to see other kids being mistreated that made me like most of those kids.
[00:15:52] INTERVIEWER: What work did your mother and father do?
[00:15:55] Sue Burton: My mother never works, she's a housewife, and my father was a mechanic and he worked for the store that sold nothing but Cadillacs and Buicks. That's what he did for years until he retired.
[00:21:43] INTERVIEWER: Do you remember your father coming home from work, telling stories?
[00:21:46] Sue Burton: Indeed, coming and telling stories about different people that were not happy with the cars or that a new car came in and he liked it, stories like that mostly, that people that he worked with. Then after so many years he opened his own business also, so there were other stories to tell, that people didn't pay. He was that kind of a guy anyway, if they didn't pay he'd be patient, and if they didn't pay, they just didn't pay, he didn't care.
[00:21:46] INTERVIEWER: Are you issue in cars now because of that?
[00:21:46] Sue Burton: No more than Buicks and Cadillacs. [LAUGHTER] Wanting one and owning one at some point in time.
[00:21:46] INTERVIEWER: What was your family dinner like when you were growing up? Did you have family dinners?
[00:21:46] Sue Burton: We had family dinners, and as I said before, if we were late, there was no food that night. I was usually always on time, but my brother was late and we could hear him whistling a couple of doors from our own. That here he comes and he knew it all depends on what it was. If he was in trouble, then he was whistling. We were sitting at the table laughing because we knew exactly why he was doing that, but ordinarily we all sat down at dinner. We had to be there at dinner time and good food.
[00:21:46] INTERVIEWER: What was the relationship with your siblings, I'm assuming you guys were all very close [inaudible 00:21:46] how is having an older brother and being a middle child?
[00:21:46] Sue Burton: Well, we were just good friends. I think I was more friends with my brother. I had an older sister who lived with my grandparents around the corner and that became because when I was born, it was depression and they took my sister to help and she eventually stayed there, lived with them, but we are just around the corner from each other. We'd come and go as we please in and out of the houses. My sister was four years older than I, so she had her friends when she got to a certain age she had her friends. But I had my friends that we played with and went and did things with and I'd take my sister most of the times with us wherever we went. But my brother when we got to be teenagers and he could drive, then we became closer and we drived to the roller rink and places like that. Then eventually he taught me how to drive when I wasn't supposed to be driving. That's how I learned.
[00:21:46] INTERVIEWER: Growing up in the great depression. How was that like for you, for your family?
[00:21:46] Sue Burton: It was good. We had no idea, none at all, that people were suffering, they had no jobs. My father go to work 15 miles 40 miles away doing his job and come home and repair people's cars in his garage. That was part of his income to come home and help those in our own town, which was maybe five 10,000. I'd say five or 7,000 without students. I think when students came to town, which is like after the end of fall, then it went up to maybe like eight or 9,000 people in Oxford, Ohio. It was a village at that time and he just helped out where he could and they paid whatever they could pay at that during that time. But as children, we had no idea that we were semi poor or even close to it. Because the way we were treated and the food that we ate was good.
[00:21:46] INTERVIEWER: Did you notice in your community or was your community pretty stable during the Great Depression or was there people who you did see suffer?
[00:21:46] Sue Burton: I'd never seen anyone suffer. But we knew that in certain areas of our town that the people were poor. As children, there's nothing to do about that, but listen, learn. That's one reason why you always have to be kind to people. You just learn to be kind because you knew that there was someone that didn't have what we had, and as a rule, from what I can remember now, we had just about anything we wanted as far as clothing and things like that. I think that comes from my grandparents taking care of my big sister and my dad working late at night.
[00:21:46] INTERVIEWER: Having your big sister not in the same house as you. What was that like and how how did you perceive that when you were growing up?
[00:21:46] Sue Burton: A lot of times I was wishing that she was there. Then again, there were opportunities for me that if she was there, I wouldn't get. That's like clothes and things like that and being able to go places that if I had a big sister now, she'd be in-charge instead of me being in-charge of my baby sister, she'd be in-charge of me. But as a rule, we always talked and and when she became a teenager, she went her way as far as her friends because like I said, I was four years younger than she.
[00:22:24] INTERVIEWER: You mentioned you really just listened and learned. What did you learn when you listened to people in your community?
[00:22:36] Sue Burton: Well, you learn about a lot of these folks gossip. When you get to a certain age they will say, well she was trying to tell me to do this and she was going with that old man, and just a lot of little things that you didn't know as a child. Then, again, there were just like yes ma'am, and no ma'am. It wasn't like somebody said you better talk that way, it was something that you just naturally did. You just had that respect, no cursing. If your parents said, "I want you to do. Why not?" Then you're in trouble. You just did not talk back and it didn't hurt to not talk back. If you were anxious to please someone then you just didn't want to talk back. But there are times when if you heard a kid got a spanking then you can just about bet that he did something like that. Nothing bad but just didn't respect or didn't mind. You did have to mind. You had to be in if they said be here a certain time. Or, you must wear these clothes to school. You can't have this. Save this for Sunday. Shoes were saved for Sunday and regular shoes went to school, things like that. It's a natural thing to obey without having to be told to obey.
[00:24:10] INTERVIEWER: Going to school during the depression, seeing it I guess when you were working at client too, when you were in school during the depression how was that like to go to school during when maybe some kids, their families weren't doing well or lost their job or whatever it was. How was that like to go to school with that?
[00:24:34] Sue Burton: Well, it was very sad. They were kids that in fact, I think I might have been one of them at one time where we loved tennis shoes and things like that. But if you've got a hole in that shoe, then out comes a shoe box and cut a piece of paper out of the shoe box and put it in the bottom of your shoe inside and that's how we wear the shoes to school? That's just how bad it was at times. We didn't have anyone going around saying, let's gather all the coats and hats in a box at the store so people can come in and help themselves. But they had some type of a program and I can't think of the title of it, the name of it right now, where poor people went to get food. I cannot think of the name of that place right off hand. But it was similar to whatever is going on today but not as much. In other words, I'm thinking we might get corn meal, margarine, no butter, dry milk, and things like that to survive. But other than that, that was about it for the poor.
[00:25:50] INTERVIEWER: Did you ever see the kids what they went through of people in your school that [inaudible 00:25:59] of the Great Depression?
[00:26:01] Sue Burton: Well, in some cases it was hard for kids to learn because they're not sleeping well or they don't have what they need, that can make a big difference. I can just remember some poor families. But exactly what went on in their homes I'm not sure of.
[00:26:27] INTERVIEWER: Do you think that being raised in the Great Depression and seeing all that, affected how you've grown and how you treat people or anything?
[00:26:39] Sue Burton: I think so because I can remember so many times and saying, well, a lot of kids don't have this so you ought to appreciate it. Remember this, you can't have everything. Like this is the kind of conversation that went on with adults and with your parents when you might want something that you just cannot have, which was probably a lot of things back in those days, but all in all, when we got to certain days my dad was like I said, he would take us places, Indianapolis to the 500, the automobile race. We'd go the day before, which was, I guess you'd call it training or something. Then we'd go under the tunnel, under the tracks up into the center of the race track. My mother would take out a basket of food and a blanket and we'd sit out there in the middle and have a picnic while my dad and my brother would go look at the races. They called it a trial. That would be the day before the races because we couldn't afford to go to the races.
[00:27:53] INTERVIEWER: Were there people in your school who did not have to deal with the Great Depression at all, who were very good or did you have all the types of classes or was it just one type of class?
[00:28:05] Sue Burton: One type of class were, poor, rich, middle, whatever. What's really happening is that there was a rich-poor, very rich kids, and most of the rich ones were white children. And their parents owned like the hardware, or the lumber company. Those were the town things that were in the university. Some of them worked at the university.
[00:28:35] INTERVIEWER: We will continue this when the bell rings which I want to [OVERLAPPING]
[00:28:38] Sue Burton: It's okay.
[00:28:41] INTERVIEWER: If you could tell us what you were telling Julie and I during the break about the different communities where people lived.
[00:28:50] Sue Burton: Let's say we go back to Oxford was a mile square. It was more or less divided because the university took up half of Oxford, and then the other half was residential. In this north side of town, there were poor communities. One side of the west side of Oxford it was more like poor whites. Then on the east side was more like poor blacks. These names had, I think it was hillbilly heaven or something like that. Then the other was the bottoms for the blacks and for both sides related to just the bottoms and which meant that that's where the poor lived. You didn't say it like that, but that's what it indicated. I lived down there for playing wives with the kids. I love to go either place. One of the friends that I had was Audrey Lackey and her grandparents lived next door to my grandparents, which is in town. We called it in town what's like Vine Street was a dividing area for the North and the South. [NOISE] Anyway, most people that had a decent income lived in the middle of town. I guess you were saying. I can't recall exactly what all we were talking about.
[00:30:34] INTERVIEWER: I think that was it and then that
[00:30:37] Sue Burton: Owe taxes. We've talking about how much it cost back in those days and then getting the 29th till maybe 40s. It was like $1 a year for Oxford taxes for property and a lot of the people that worked in Oxford were employees of Miami University also. That was the main income and there was a University College for women, nothing but women and it was called the Western College. These women came from all over the world, Africans, Italians, French ladies, all types of people all over the world came to this college which was quite prestigious, and doing some of the holidays, basically Christmas time. The school would invite kids from our school to attend the party at the Western College and they'd always have some type of a gift, might be a pen or a tablet or something which was precious to us as kids. University library where we always went on Saturdays to listen to stories as little kids used to go to Miami University, to the library there and listened to stories. I'm trying to think what all went on in Miami that they shared with the schools. I think mainly entertainments that at the gym if there was any type of well-known person or band or whatever it might be then we're invited to go to Tim that also I can think of offhand.
[00:32:47] INTERVIEWER: You were talking about these certain areas or certain groups where parents in your community or families or even kids, don't go there or you can.
[00:33:01] Sue Burton: In Oxford, blacks were not permitted to go into restaurants. But what I can remember and what I've heard when I was a kid who cares? It's a mile square. You're living on both sides this way. You come up to the main street with this restaurant. You live a block from the restaurant. You live a block or two blocks from a restaurant, or 3, 4 blocks. That's it. Why would you want to spend your money going into a restaurant to eat with someone when you can sit at home and eat and not waste your money? If you're going into Dayton, Ohio, or Cincinnati, where you could go into these restaurants, it was a privilege and that was something different to do. But my father owned a home and across the street from our home was Mr. Beasley who owned the bakery and did I tell you this story or not? And he had two children there. We played with those kids, just like you played with your friends. Mr. Beasley decided to extend the bakery shop a little larger counter stools so that we could come in and go and get donuts and sit at stools just for the fun of it. When I went and I don't know if it was my husband or what other kid was with me and it might have been Elmer a kid from this across the street. When we went into this bakery, went to get the donut, went up, stood they told us we couldn't sit there. Now, the worst part about that was that when Mr. Beasley opened this extra part of the store, he hired a man from Cincinnati's family, and they moved to Oxford. They moved into my father's house. They have been at my father's house and then they're going to tell us that we can't sit in this little three-stool extension of a restaurant of a bakery. My father, being knowledgeable about law and things like this, he contacted some lawyer. The lawyer said don't receive any money from them rent-wise. You're going to ask them to leave and if they pay you anything, then they get the state of another month or whatever. That's how he asked. Eventually got them to move out of the house and never spoke to the Beasleys again, that's sad. But we couldn't play the kids, couldn't do anything with them after that. That was one of the racist things that I can recall. Far as not being able to swim in the swimming pools was another one and I for some reason, I don't think anyone really cared about that until three guys through black kids, young men that came out of the Marines. They came off the Marines and they insisted that they swim in the pool because their parents are paying taxes on it and that took care of that from there on, blacks would go swimming in the pool. From their own, I think everything was fine. No discrimination or anything else after that. Because you could always live anywhere you wanted to live in town so it just seemed stupid at that time that those things were happening. That's one of my experiences as far as which I couldn't do and which I can do now.
[00:36:53] INTERVIEWER: At this time period raising such a prominent issue did you feel as if you lived in a bubble because you seem as if your community was pretty accepting everyone and they weren't much tuition is what you told me about it? Did you feel like you're in a bubble or did you feel that thing?
[00:37:16] Sue Burton: You didn't feel I and I don't remember feeling like us in any kind of a bubble. We just lived. We lived amongst each other. I think that in my block, my street really I think my parents and then a parent across the street and maybe one parent way down in the end of the same street were the only black people on our street. But that never meant anything. You see, and because of other streets you can live wherever you wanted to live and if the university decided they wanted a piece of land like they do here, they would take it and you'd move your house to someplace else. But that never happened with us, we were always on what they would call the safe side of town because the university never wanted anything on that side of the town just private owned zone most of the places.
[00:38:10] INTERVIEWER: Did you face any discrimination in school?
[00:38:15] Sue Burton: In school. Of course. I just think that I really if I did, I just erased it. I cannot think of anything that bothers me. We went to the gym together. We played together, drag classes. I can't think of anything that knowingly, that would have been racist not to my knowledge, I can't think of anything.
[00:38:52] INTERVIEWER: What is your earliest memory?
[00:38:57] Sue Burton: My earliest memory, when I was about four or five years old. Our church behind the vestibule, they had a room and behind this room there were some two beautiful black ladies that were our teachers, or what do you call it nowadays when kindergarten is at school, but what do you call it when you're not in school? When they collect kids to take care of baby nursery or something?
[00:39:27] INTERVIEWER: Daycare.
[00:39:27] Sue Burton: This is more like a daycare. Why? I don t know because my parents were home. That we had to school with these ladies, told us different things and it was behind them. It was a big room. They had rugs. I can't do what you call those rugs, but everybody had their own rug. That's where you took your nap. But they also tell us how to set the table at five years old. Different things when they fixed the sandwiches they say so you come and set the table, or then somebody else would have to do it the next day? But these ladies, I don't know why this was organized, but these were some of the sweetest people for children. I learned them later. I knew them when I became an adult and whatnot. But why they organize it, I'll never know because I would like to say all the parents were home and we didn't have to go, I don't think. But we all went and enjoyed it as boys and girls.
[00:40:46] INTERVIEWER: I would just like to ask, does your parents endure any racism or discrimination?
[00:40:53] Sue Burton: I think my dad did. I think he had to because he was working in the city, would like to say it was just 14, 15 miles from where we were. He is working in the city and I don't think he could have become a dealer. I don't think they'd let him dressed up like he does when he's going to church and go into the room and sell cars and things like that. He knew more about cars better than the dealer did, but I can't remember them talking about it at all. I really can't.
[00:41:28] INTERVIEWER: Did your family ever talked about maybe [inaudible 00:41:32]. Now we're going to talk about your childhood up until when you began school. Either of these questions jog memories about other times in your life, please only respond with memories in the earliest part of your life. Where did you grow up and what are your strongest memories?
[00:41:54] Sue Burton: I grew up in Oxford, Ohio. As I said before, I lived in an integrated community. We went to school with all the children, we walked to school. You walked to school, you walked home for lunch and you walked back. He put in a mile going and coming each time and thought nothing of it. Neighbors were our parents. We respected all in each neighbor regardless if it was a postman, the mailman, just regular neighbors lived on our street. We had to obey each and everyone. That was easy. That was something that I'll keep it in my mind when I talk to a lot of young people today that manners. But that's what we learned in Sunday school. Speaking of Sunday school, they had a similar to a daycare at our church at one of the churches I attend when I was a child. These ladies taught us manners, how to set a table at four or five years of age. I'm trying to think of anything else that you'd like to hear about. Well, you had to be in before dark regardless of where you were in town, you had to get home in time for dinner, to be honest with you, more than dark before dinner. We played and skated. They had an ice skating, what they call an ice skating ring, but they flooded the tennis court took on the campus of University of Miami. I ice skated there. Then there was a University just for women from all over the world. We were invited there a couple of times. The students of the school were invited there a couple of times to parties and holidays and they gave you little gifts like pencils and pens and things like that. I always play mates, always skating. I'm trying to think of something that's more educational that you might want to know about. Maybe you might want to ask me something else because [inaudible 00:44:35].
[00:44:37] INTERVIEWER: How did living in an integrated community affect how you were raised. If there's any specific terms, if you were brought up because of the integrated community?
[00:44:46] Sue Burton: We were integrated, but there were certain areas where blacks could not go. That was one was to the swimming pool. My father owned a home across the street from where we lived. The baker who lived in that home, rented that home. The remodeled the bakery downtown or uptown, we called it. They wouldn't allow us kids to go in there and sit down and have donuts or chocolate milk or whatever they served. That was a problem. That's about the only problem that I can remember as being harsh as far as neighbors is because they wouldn't allow that to my father asked him to leave our home, leave his house that you rented out to them. Other than that, the kids called you names but you responded the way you wanted to and no one, families or anything didn't get arguments or anything like that. You just settled it with your friends or your enemies, whoever might be. As far as playing. Everything was open to, the parks, the school yard which had through swings and you could go there and any day. It was public property that anyone could use. There were certain areas that were for poor families and which didn't matter. He still had respect for each and everyone, regardless of who they were. That meant the town drunk as well. A certain man who let their memories call Mr. Rocco. Everybody kids always laughed about him. But if he said you better get home. [LAUGHTER] There's things like that that I can remember as far as being a child. You might want to ask me something else. I'm not sure.
[00:46:50] INTERVIEWER: Not being able to access swimming pool at younger age. What was that like to go through that as a child?
[00:46:59] Sue Burton: It didn't bother me. A lot of kids that didn't bother. But by the time we were teenagers, there were 2, 3, 4 young man that just came home on furlough from the army. They decided they were going to swim in that pool because our parents have paid taxes on it, like everyone else. These four gala guys went over to the pool. They went in the pool and that was the last of that. Nothing else was ever said from that day on. Anyone that one swim, could go swimming. That was back in oh, I see. It was back in 19 about '45, '46 when that happened.
[00:47:52] INTERVIEWER: How did your family come to live in Ohio?
[00:47:55] Sue Burton: Well, my father's parents were there and my father was a mechanic. The place that he worked was 14 miles from where we lived. We lived in Oxford, Ohio, as I said, and the next town city was Hamilton, Ohio, which is 14, 15 miles away. That's where he worked as a mechanic. Then when he came home, he worked on folks cars that was needed in Oxford. That was his living until he ended up buying his own garage and becoming his own owner. My mother was a housewife, she did not go out to work.
[00:48:43] INTERVIEWER: What was your house like?
[00:48:45] Sue Burton: Fun. It was a fun place, so we had a screened in porch. I had a baby sister and older sister, but my brother and I would sleep out there on the porch at night. It was screened and as I said and and the milk usually woke us up because they delivered milk to your home. Then you didn't have to go to the store to buy milk. Open the screen doors, get the milk right hand side. That would awaken us. Then we had get up and go get in bed unless there was school. But most of the times that it was summertime, we'd have to go school. But it was just a nice place. We each had our own room, we had a backyard. We had a garage where my father allowed us to buy rabbit or a Guinea pig at the Ohio State Fair until it was deceased or whatever happened to it. That was where we kept it in his garage. That's about it. I think it was a home just fun.
[00:49:58] INTERVIEWER: Any particular fun memories from your childhood?
[00:50:07] Sue Burton: All I can think of a lot of things. Most of the things that I can remember that I liked was my father would take us to different places that no one else around our community was able to go to. You take us to the Cincinnati Zoo. He'll take us to a park called Burn park in Cincinnati. It was a beautiful park where you could go and swing and we'll see the ducks and had a lake and you can go view that. Then they had a picnic. Always a picnic. Then my father took us to Indianapolis, Ohio for the trials for the 500, and then take us to the day before the races. They have a big picnic and in that area. It was a lot of traveling and my dad like to take us different places. It's basically to fairs and things like that.
[00:51:10] INTERVIEWER: For the interview, please ignore the camera and just have a conversation with me. Then we may have to pause to change tape and we'll pick up right where we left off. Figures, cell phones, pagers or anything, I'll turn that off. Then you have.
[00:51:29] Sue Burton: My cell phone, make sure to something it's off if that's the case.
[00:51:47] INTERVIEWER: Anyone can calibrate anytime if you want. Also, remember that you can decline any of my questions or in the interview at any time frames.
[00:52:10] INTERVIEWER: I'm first going to ask you some simple demographic questions. Well, these questions may jog memories. Please keep your answers brief and to the point for now, you cannot elaborate later in the interview. Please say and spell your name.
[00:52:22] Ursula Burton: My name is Ursula Burton, U-R-S-U-L-A, E, no initial, and Burton, B-U-R-T-O-N.
[00:52:37] INTERVIEWER: When is your birthday, including the year?
[00:52:39] Ursula Burton: Birth date is April the 1st, 1929.
[00:52:47] INTERVIEWER: How would you describe your ethnic background?
[00:52:51] Ursula Burton: I would describe it as a black American woman.
[00:52:55] INTERVIEWER: What is your religious affiliation if ethnic?
[00:52:59] Ursula Burton: Protestants.
[00:53:01] INTERVIEWER: What is your highest level of formal education you have completed?
[00:53:06] Ursula Burton: Twelve years of high school and a couple of hours at the University of Miami of Ohio.
[00:53:19] INTERVIEWER: Did you attend any additional school or formal career training beyond when you completed?
[00:53:24] Ursula Burton: No.
[00:53:26] INTERVIEWER: What is your marital status?
[00:53:28] Ursula Burton: I was married for 66 years as of December 25th, 2016.
[00:53:42] INTERVIEWER: How many children do you have?
[00:53:44] Ursula Burton: I have two children.
[00:53:46] INTERVIEWER: How many siblings do you have?
[00:53:50] Ursula Burton: None at the present time. They're all deceased.
[00:53:55] INTERVIEWER: What would you consider your primary occupation to have been?
[00:54:01] Ursula Burton: To have been. Permanent secretary.
[00:54:09] INTERVIEWER: At what age did you retire?
[00:54:12] Ursula Burton: Oh gosh, 1994. I can't remember the date, but I retired in 1994.
[00:54:20] INTERVIEWER: Now we're ready to begin the first part of our interview, beginning with some of the things you can recall about your family history. We're beginning with the only name history. By this, we mean any story about your last for family name or family traditions and selecting first our middle names. Do you know any stories about your family name?
[00:54:42] Ursula Burton: Not really. My mother's family name, I know that her brothers, her uncles were soldiers in World War 1 and 2. History-wise, I really don't have any history on mine right now.
[00:55:06] INTERVIEWER: Are there any naming traditions in your family?
[00:55:10] Ursula Burton: Name traditions?
[00:55:11] INTERVIEWER: Naming traditions.
[00:55:14] Ursula Burton: No, I don't think so.
[00:55:16] INTERVIEWER: How did your ancestors lead to come to the United States?
[00:55:20] Ursula Burton: They were born in the United States
[00:55:25] INTERVIEWER: Do you know any stories about how your family first come to United States and where did they settle?
[00:55:31] Ursula Burton: My understanding is that my grandfather, or my father's father, was a child of a mixed marriage, and he married a woman who was part African and Indian. That was on my father's side. My maternal parents were part Indian and African.
[00:56:07] INTERVIEWER: How did they make a living either in the whole country or in the United States?
[00:56:12] Ursula Burton: My maternal grandmother was a housekeeper for a superintendent of the school area in Ohio. My paternal grandfather on my mother's side was the chauffeur for some of the Ford families years ago.
[00:56:41] INTERVIEWER: Describe their migration once they arrived in the United States and how they came to live in this area.
[00:56:47] Ursula Burton: Say that again, please.
[00:56:49] INTERVIEWER: Describe any migration once they arrived in the United States and how they came to live in Ann Harbor.
[00:56:56] Ursula Burton: I have no idea. I couldn't begin to tell you.
[00:57:01] INTERVIEWER: What possessions did they bring with them when they came?
[00:57:08] Ursula Burton: I still have no idea. We've been here for so long. This is not visible or known to me.
[00:57:20] INTERVIEWER: Which family members came along or stayed behind?
[00:57:24] Ursula Burton: I have no idea.
[00:57:26] INTERVIEWER: To your knowledge, they did he make an effort to preserve any traditions or costumes for their country of origin?
[00:57:34] Ursula Burton: My maternal grandmother had an Indian mother, her mother to live with her. We have so many artifacts that belonged to her. But other than that, I have no idea about any other history than that with that part of the family.
[00:57:55] INTERVIEWER: Could you describe some of the artifacts?
[00:57:57] Ursula Burton: Well, mostly dishes, I think mostly dishes and I think that's about it. I think mainly dishes that I can recall that we have.
[00:58:17] INTERVIEWER: Are there traditions that your family has given up or changed?
[00:58:24] Ursula Burton: That they've changed, I don't think so. I think most of them are now attending different churches compared to what they were doing when they first arrived in Ohio, so that way.
[00:58:39] INTERVIEWER: What original church?
[00:58:42] Ursula Burton: When was it from the Methodist church? Then that was the maternal family. A paternal father was a Baptist area.
[00:58:55] INTERVIEWER: Do you know why you're failing to change churches?
[00:59:01] Ursula Burton: No more than the area that they lived in. I think when they moved us, what they changed.
[00:59:16] INTERVIEWER: What stories have come down to you about your parents and grandparents?
[00:59:21] Ursula Burton: Well, the main story that from my grandparents was my grandmother's brothers that were Buffalo Soldiers. That's one of the things that we take pride in speaking about more than anything.
[00:59:37] INTERVIEWER: Do you have any stories about that?
[00:59:40] Ursula Burton: One of them came to Ohio from Missouri, I think it was. He was an older gentleman that time of his wife and they had no children. They wanted to take me with them for a summer. My mother refused to allow that to happen because they were going to someplace North of United States, in the Canadian area. She's afraid they wouldn't bring me back. Wouldn't return with me.
[01:00:17] INTERVIEWER: Why does your family take especially pride in Buffalo soldiers?
[01:00:23] Ursula Burton: I think that was part of the one of the only things that they had to take pride in.
[01:00:31] INTERVIEWER: Do you have any more distant ancestors?
[01:00:36] Ursula Burton: No. Not that I can think of, except, on my father's side, and that was my grandparents. That was about it.
[01:00:45] INTERVIEWER: Do you know any courtship stories?
[01:00:48] Ursula Burton: Courtship stories with?
[01:00:55] INTERVIEWER: Yeah, courtship stories.
[01:00:57] Ursula Burton: Explain to me what you mean.
[01:00:58] INTERVIEWER: Oh, how did your parents, grandparents, and other relatives come to meet in marriage?
[01:01:03] Ursula Burton: Oh, I have no idea. None at all.
[01:01:09] INTERVIEWER: Do you have any stories of your ancestors of them being Indian and African-American? Was there any?
[01:01:20] Ursula Burton: No. My grandfather was an African-American and my grandmother was part Indian, the one I spoke to earlier. Then my father's father, his mother was supposed to have been an Irish woman, and she married a black man. Well, they never married. They just started living together because my understanding was that they took her last name, which was Heirs. That's how the name passed on. I imagine that they probably had to go someplace other than the community that they were in. But I have no idea about their history other than that.
[01:02:10] INTERVIEWER: Do you know why they changed the name?
[01:02:13] Ursula Burton: I have no idea.
[01:02:20] INTERVIEWER: That's all the questions.
[01:02:21] Ursula Burton: It is. I wish I knew what you're going to ask me because I could have been prepared. It finds out some more stuff on it.
[01:02:29] MALE_1: [inaudible 01:02:29].
[01:02:34] Ursula Burton: No, that'll be good because this is a big surprise and some of the things that you're asking, and I'm quite sure that it come back to me about a lot of things that have happened over there. You got to remember that am 88 years of age. All of this that happened before is some of us just not knowledge compared to what some other families suspects if you're from the South, they probably would have more history, but we lived in an integrated town, went to an integrated school. There was a lot of things that we didn't come in contact with to know or to even think of history.
[01:03:19] MALE_1: [inaudible 01:03:19].
[01:03:26] Ursula Burton: I don't care if they make an ask me what they want, I appreciate learning fine. I like your shoes.
[01:03:32] INTERVIEWER: Thank you.
[01:03:43] MALE_1: [inaudible 01:03:43]. Thank you.
[01:03:45] INTERVIEWER: Is there any other childhood memories?
[01:03:49] Sue Burton: Oh, I can remember being a tomboy and following my my brother, and my husband at that time, he wasn't at least chased me back home. I'm really serious about that. I was a tomboy. I wanted to do everything they wanted to do. One time they went to the creek and that's what a lot of Black kids did anyway. If they wanted to play in water or something, they just run down to the creek and the place where they went was called Black bridge and it's not because the kids were Black, but because it was so dark, and when you went into it, even at a day time it was dark and they call it the Black bridge. But there was enough water that the kids could swim and they wanted to and not only did the Black kids with a lot of kids just prefer that to the pool. I would follow them down and then make them me back home my brothers would especially. There's so many things that we used to do and we are kids that you don't do anymore here. Play Jacks. We used to play Jacks and he's a hopscotch and jump ropes and things like this and ride the bikes and the whole bit and that would-.
[01:05:17] INTERVIEWER: [inaudible 01:05:17].
[01:05:21] Sue Burton: Where were we going here? I forgot [LAUGHTER] quick.
[01:05:28] MALE_2: We were talking about the creek.
[01:05:29] Sue Burton: Oh, we're talking about the different things that the kids did during that time. Most of the things that we did were outside. It's not like today. Where are you in all the time now. We were allowed to play a lot as children and then naturally, you had to do your homework and your housework, whatever the parents asked you to do, but I was just trying to think of something else that I really can't think of anything else that we did except parties. We had parties and they were mostly birthday parties, and sometimes you were invited and sometimes you weren't, and that's the way we're supposed to be. If somebody wanted to invite you, okay, if not, that's okay. But most of the times they had clubs at church. They look club meetings where you'd go in and learn about the Bible and things like that and socialized that have maybe drinks and things like that cookies and cakes and things like that to share as during this time that we were having our meetings just to put that away, and I couldn't think of anything else, why don't I get more questions.
[01:07:08] INTERVIEWER: Do you know why people preferred Black people in the pool?
[01:07:13] Sue Burton: They weren't allowed to go into the pool at that time, when we were younger. This didn't happen until these fellows grew up and went into the service and came home and then they took over, the pool. They just went in and that was it. But there was nothing else for them to do except that about 18 miles from at Oxford, Ohio, there was a town called Middletown. They had swimming pool they are just for Blacks and so that was a treat for your parents to drive you over there. Especially, it'll be on the weekends and it's summertime. Back in the summertime that parents would get together and take a bunch of kids over to Middletown and they have a picnic lunch and and be allowed to swim. Then back home, we went. That was a special trip if your parents had an automobile. Otherwise, kids that did not have one when they could go if their parents would allow, other than that, it was just families affairs.
[01:08:36] INTERVIEWER: Would you say your family was close or were you close to specifically anyone in your family?
[01:08:43] Sue Burton: Was I close to my mother? Hell, yeah. But I was thinking about this of the day. My mother and my father were super. I really like being with both of them. I had a really good father. By that. I mean, he worked so hard and my mother was always home. There was a time when they decided that they didn't not want to be together as a child, I wasn't sure about that. I was like a teenager then and that broke my heart. But other than that, they were good to us. At Christmas time, my dad gave us things that no other child around parents could afford. That was like a brand new bicycle or this new skates. Just things like that, that back in those days. This was in 1929 and it was equipped to call depression time and a lot of people did not have jobs and whatnot, but my dad worked his behind off like that because he really did struggle. That's what I can remember about being a kid. With them separating that broke my heart because that was something unusual for back in those days for parents to be separated. My mother went to live with my grandmother who was not well, so she took care of her and I stayed with my dad because I was at the age where I felt that he can afford to take care of me better than my mother cooked because they'd been in strain on her. Between going back-and-forth the Hamilton, Ohio, 14 miles away to visit and stuff like that, we were always real close regardless.
[01:10:41] INTERVIEWER: The other siblings lived with your dad or was it?
[01:10:47] Sue Burton: My baby sister and my brother and I, my oldest sister, lived with my grandmother because like I said at that time, it was a depression and it was they helped out by taking my oldest sister in and raising her. But we were just around a corner. Still a family thing. It's like separation or anything like that. But that would be my father's mother that had to do that.
[01:11:19] INTERVIEWER: Why would you say that you were not close to your mum. What about your relationship with her?
[01:11:26] Sue Burton: Because she liked to go to a Baptist church and I loved going to church with her, and I loved the singing that the Baptist people saying the Gospels know that. I loved every bit of that. That church was in Hamilton, Ohio and our churches in Oxford were not like that. That was a fun thing to do as a kid. When I got older then I went joined my church in my town and I asked her the Baptist Church and started singing at that point from there on with the choir.
[01:12:03] INTERVIEWER: Growing up, going to church and still has it affected your upbringing, who you are?
[01:12:13] Sue Burton: I think my upbringing, who I am become from the people that my mother and father's friends, because they were all so nice to me. If I was not feeling happy about my parents, they were families that would come in and talk to me and and talk about how this should be in, not to worry about this and that, and it comfort me to the point that I've always been that way ever since. Certainly.
[01:12:55] MALE_2: Julia had gone out there to ask them to move and.
[01:13:04] Sue Burton: I forgot where we were doing. Oh, I was talking about-.
[01:13:06] MALE_2: You didn't hear too much.
[01:13:22] INTERVIEWER: I think [inaudible 01:13:23]
[01:13:23] MALE_2: [inaudible 01:13:23]. The famous. She's a [LAUGHTER] few minutes later.
[01:13:36] Sue Burton: That's still on I didn't realize that.
[01:13:38] MALE_2: [inaudible 01:13:38] Yeah. We are done on that.
[01:13:43] Sue Burton: Anyway, a lot of Lady adults were so nice to me as a kid. I learned a lot from the way they talk, treated me. But at that way, the way they treated me, and it needs to be some southern kids that would come to Oxford to live, and the kids made fun of them. I hated that worse than death, I'm serious. I just did not like the way the kids treated these new kids in town. I got in the habit of being like a mother to them even though they're probably the same age as me, but just the idea that that's who I kind of gathered around when learning that somehow somebody treated me. I think that's one of the best experiences I've had it without even thinking about it until the day, that that's the reason why I like to be kind to other people.
[01:14:49] INTERVIEWER: How many people lived in the house with you when you were growing up, and what was the relationship to you?
[01:14:55] Sue Burton: The three kids, me, my brother, and my baby sister. She was eight years younger than us, and we had our own rooms and we just cut up a lot together. We're allowed to lay on the living room floor and listened to the radio, to the mystery, and one of the radio stories was mystery, which was scary. My mom and dad be sitting here, and we look up here it wants to make sure they were still there. If it's because it was a scary type of story and then where it had to be off the bed and get ready to go to school the next day, or church or Sunday school, whatever it might be. But we played a lot together. Like I said, my father would take us different places that fairs and things like that. We were taught, we learned, I should say, how to take care of animals because that's what we'd get to know by the Fair, and we had to take care of it. That was one of the learning experiences also how to treat animals and whatnot.
[01:16:16] INTERVIEWER: Were you really close to labor siblings in particular your brother [inaudible 01:16:20]
[01:16:20] Sue Burton: I used to love my brother, I just loved him because he was a rascal. We did things together after we got to be a teenagers, and they taught me how to drive. My dad even didn't know about it, and we go skating rink, he had tried to skating rinks and allow me to drive home if it wasn't too dark whatever. That's how I learned to drive and my dad always wondered how that happened without them knowing about it. My brother, we were close when we got to be teenagers. My baby sister and I were close when she was little. Beginning to grow up, then you don't listen to each other, you are individuals. That's the way that turnout. We grew away from each other because I got married when I was 21, and so she was still a teenager at homes. That worried me a lot about her but super come out okay too.
[01:17:24] INTERVIEWER: Why that worry you?
[01:17:26] Sue Burton: Because she was younger than me, and she was doing the things I was doing. The liking to go parties and go into skating rinks and things like that, but I'm in North Carolina, we got married, we lived in North Carolina and she's in Ohio and she's my baby sister, so you just have that gearing thought in it.
[01:17:51] INTERVIEWER: [inaudible 01:17:51] Any memories still alive?
[01:17:59] Sue Burton: No. Not the one. Not the one. I have a distant cousin, and by that, I mean it was my grandfather's brother's daughter, and she's like 89 years of age, and she's only really person that was in our family line. I have a nephew and a niece that live in Atlanta, Georgia. I have nieces, a niece, and nephews in Chicago area, in Gary, Indiana area.
[01:18:37] INTERVIEWER: One of your significant memories from your baby sister when you are a little?
[01:18:47] Sue Burton: Taking her everywhere I went. I can think because she wanted to go everywhere I went, and so that made a difference. But she was just a just a baby sister. She's just like the upper Jess and things like that.
[01:19:05] INTERVIEWER: Was there any type of different dynamic with your family because you're the neighbor, child?
[01:19:12] Sue Burton: Dynamics?
[01:19:16] INTERVIEWER: Those to beat the male child. Were you close to both of your siblings, those with you more than each other, or was that dynamics?
[01:19:24] Sue Burton: We're all about the same. My brother went to the service, so he was away for quite a while. But then just my baby sister and I don't. But other than that, we were always close together. They're mostly everything together.
[01:19:44] INTERVIEWER: Did having close siblings help with your upbringing in a positive light when your parents had divorced?
[01:19:53] Sue Burton: Yes. Well, by the time my parents were divorced, my brother was an adult, like I said, he was in the service, and I was home with my baby sister and my dad. I'm trying to think what I was doing. I was working at the time. I think I was either I know I tell you where I was working. I was working at the dry cleaners, at the time and there was a factory in our hometown, and it's called the Capital and you get a job just going down and press and close and whatnot. Then after that, I went to the city where my dad work, where my dad had his garage, and so I could travel with him and then I went to store to a dry cleaning store and I worked there as not a receptionist, but just the person who took him close and I did that, worked in store like that for a while.
[01:20:53] INTERVIEWER: When your parents told you they were going to divorce, what went through your mind? How did you deal with that?
[01:21:02] Sue Burton: I had a terrible time during that time I had to school wise. I just did not function well at all. I was embarrassed, and I was hurt. There's just so much that I can not remember at the time of what all went on. But just to know that your parents had a problem, and that means lack of sleep and whatever else, you just embarrassed and hurt. People know and some people are saying they're sorry and other people are gossiping. It was hard for me as a child, it really was. I did not finish school in high school until I was an adult. I went to school every day, got graduated, but I was just so heartbroken that I just clicked by maybe three or four weeks before the end of the school. I had a hard time during that time in my life. Really hard time.
[01:22:14] INTERVIEWER: What languages were spoken in or around your household?
[01:22:22] Sue Burton: English.
[01:22:23] INTERVIEWER: Did you have a diverse amount of people other than people who spoke English?
[01:22:30] Sue Burton: Not our household no.
[01:22:32] INTERVIEWER: In your neighborhood or in your community?
[01:22:37] Sue Burton: Not that I'm not to my knowledge.
[01:22:40] INTERVIEWER: When did you [OVERLAPPING]
[01:22:40] Sue Burton: Everybody spoke English.
[01:22:44] INTERVIEWER: How old were you at that time when you first saw daggers languages and why more that just English in your community?
[01:23:00] Sue Burton: Yeah okay. Say that again I'm sorry.
[01:23:03] INTERVIEWER: What here is your timekeeper see my diversity and languages and people?
[01:23:12] Sue Burton: I imagine would have to be in high school, but because there's a lot of colleagues in the college town to begin with. Again, the University of Miami University, I keep saying University of Miami, University of Ohio, and we got to go or something, check it out. So anyway, I can't remember the name of this college in Oxford that was like to say was just for women only. That's it. I thought.
[01:23:56] INTERVIEWER: It is time to turn off or to silence any of your cell phones or anything else like beeps, chimes, or otherwise makes noises.
[01:24:08] Sue Burton: Cellphone.
[01:24:09] INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
[01:24:12] Sue Burton: Is it far enough away? Can you take my purse and put away over there somewhere?
[01:24:16] INTERVIEWER: Sure
[01:24:17] Sue Burton: Bag, what do you want to call it? [NOISE]
[01:24:34] INTERVIEWER: Anyone can call break at any time if you want one. Also, please remember that you can decline to answer any question or charity the interview at any given time. We're just going to resume. We had few questions left under earliest memories in childhood. We're just going to start with that first. What was your typical day like in your preschool years?
[01:24:59] Sue Burton: In my preschool years I would go to a church not too far from where we lived. They had a children's low class classroom and the beckoned festival. We'll go back in there and this lovely ladies would teach us how to set a table, have manners and things like that. We had songs to sing and then we also had. I think I might have told you before. We had little rugs, individual rugs that we were allowed to lay on to take a nap until we started again with different activities.
[01:25:43] INTERVIEWER: What did you do for fun?
[01:25:45] Sue Burton: For fun what age would you be referring to now?
[01:25:50] INTERVIEWER: This is during preschool, kindergarten age.
[01:25:54] Sue Burton: Probably just playing jacks, jump rope, things like those, the neighborhood children, getting in trouble like our parents makeup and things [LAUGHTER] like that that has happened. I can't think of anything else except that we played in most of the time with dolls. Then I said, jump ropes and being outside was more of a pleasure. When the weather was nice enough to go out and do things outside.
[01:26:30] INTERVIEWER: Do you have a favorite toy?
[01:26:33] Sue Burton: I did have a favorite toy. I had a Shirley Temple doll, when I was a child and I loved it. Because Shirley Temples birthday was the same month as mine, and we would have been the same age. I just look forward to making sure that I took good care of that doll. We'd go to the movies to see Shirley Temple.
[01:26:59] INTERVIEWER: Do you have a favorite game?
[01:27:02] Sue Burton: No more than Jack's. I love Jack's.
[01:27:07] INTERVIEWER: If you read books or a book?
[01:27:10] Sue Burton: Most of that particular time most books were read to us rather than to read them. If you're talking about pre-school here.
[01:27:22] INTERVIEWER: [inaudible 01:27:22] [OVERLAPPING]. Were there any special days, events, or family traditions you remember from this time period?
[01:27:40] Sue Burton: Most of the holidays that I can recall are birthdays and thanksgiving and Christmas time. As a child, Easter I think was our favorite holiday because we got to dress up in new clothes.
[01:28:00] Sue Burton: [OVERLAPPING] Can you, you can't hear them. You're saying what Easter is?
[01:28:19] Sue Burton: Easter was one of the special especially for girls. Yes, we had to get better new dresses and outfits for holiday.
[01:28:31] INTERVIEWER: We'll discuss now your time as a young person from the time that you attended school, and up until your professional career of work-life, did you go to preschool?
[01:28:44] Sue Burton: No. School that I was just telling you about was more like more private. Was just for our church. That's what we would consider today as a preschool, because we were taught so much. But other than that, no, not to regular public schools.
[01:29:04] INTERVIEWER: Did you go to kindergarten?
[01:29:07] Sue Burton: No.
[01:29:09] INTERVIEWER: Did you go to elementary school?
[01:29:11] Sue Burton: First grades where we enter school. There was no kindergarten or preschool back in those days, put it that way.
[01:29:21] INTERVIEWER: You did go to elementarty and so what do you remember about first grade till fifth grade?
[01:29:27] Sue Burton: I've ever been frightened of the first grade teacher because she was big, you know, just big fat lady and she was a good teacher, but the personality was different than what I've been around. As a child, it was be a little frightened of the groove. I finally grew into. I'm just, I mean, to liking her. But it was nothing like the other teachers, you know, in the future.
[01:29:56] INTERVIEWER: What some of her characteristics that made you think that was different from what you grew up with?
[01:30:02] Sue Burton: Well, whether she was scolding me or someone else. It was just scary. When we get scolded at home, it's a different type of beings go to compare it to having a stranger talk to you in a different way or talk to any of the other students in a different way. I don t think that I was bad at all in the first grade because it was too frightening for me, but to hear her talk or scold someone else. It was just a scary thing. That's like in the first grade.
[01:30:38] INTERVIEWER: Do you have any other memories up until fifth grade?
[01:30:42] Sue Burton: I had good memories from second grade on aup. Well, especially recess, was involved with those classes with that time of the year and art classes, I really liked art and I liked all the kids. We have a lot of fun and it would play together the recess time. But to go to school was just like of elementary job, you know, just something you had to do and what you did it you didn't feel you liked it.
[01:31:18] INTERVIEWER: Did you go to high school?
[01:31:19] Sue Burton: I went to high school.
[01:31:22] INTERVIEWER: Where did you go to high school?
[01:31:24] Sue Burton: I went to high school in Oxford, Ohio. It was Stewart high school.
[01:31:29] INTERVIEWER: Do you have any memories or anything of that time period?
[01:31:33] Sue Burton: Yes. Let me start with elementary and go up or go over to the high school. Our buildings were attached. Our elementary school was old school. Then the Stewart high school was brand new. We'll leave from the elementary school and go through a similar to a tunnel, in glass on both sides and just the hallway. Then we go into the new school. The new school also had a lunch room. If you were permitted to go to lunch during those times, then you just go from one building to the other building and think you're grown up because you get to go over with the older kids. But as a rule, you couldn't go to lunch if you lived two in Oxford, period, you couldn't go to lunch. Most of the kids that went to lunch, were a country. But if your parents had to be out of town, then you were allowed to go to lunch rooms. Stewart high school. Like I said, it was brand new, brand new Jim, Clark typing class and the whole bit. Everything was exciting and adventurous, I guess you could say, to a point when you begin to learn. You'd liked learning in that particular time compared to more fun and the elementary. Then you think you're grown up but you're not. When you said this before I get to go into Stewart high.
[01:33:04] INTERVIEWER: Did you have any fun memories in high school?
[01:33:09] Sue Burton: I did. Love Jim and girls just to have a little track team, not a big thing, but compared to what it is now, but we had a track team and you could play baseball with your gym IR and whatnot. I'm trying to think what else was exciting about, typing, to learn how to type. In those particular times, we had to look at the wall and not at the keys, because there was nothing on the keys. We learn how to type. You had to look straight at the wall. You get the feel. That was scary to beginning. But then eventually you learn how to do that. Some of the teachers were super. We had one teacher, I had one. Well, let's say we we had one teacher that was young and her husband who was attending Miami University. She was up what we would say that I don't know what you say, but today we would say on the ball, she was under bossy, was up with the kids. You know, she understood most of the kids teenagers, I should say. We dearly loved that particular lady. But most of the teachers were good and patient. Most of them are very patient, so I had a good time and enjoyed it.
[01:34:42] INTERVIEWER: Did you go to school or career training beyond high school?
[01:34:46] Sue Burton: I did not go to school beyond high school. I took a class at Miami University of stenographer glass, or what they call a shorthand of glass. That's the most that I did in college level. I did not graduate from high school because I was in turmoil a situation with my parents being divorced and whatnot. I lost track even though I went to school. I just could not concentrate on just the test that you had to pay us. Other than that, I went to school every year up to the top, in fact, in the 12th grade. But then when I finally went to school to get my high school diploma, I was married and I was going to night school. That's where I applied for that and got that. Then I took a class at Miami.
[01:35:41] INTERVIEWER: At that time period, was it normal for kids to finish high school later or incomplete?
[01:35:51] Sue Burton: It wasn't it was normal for kids to complete the 12th grades. But if the child was not mentally fit, they might allow them to go ahead and get their certificate regardless. It has happened. I've seen it happened a couple of times. But most of the time you just took pride in graduating from high school and then you had the problems. Then you don't you wanted to go to the prompts as well. That fit in with that last year school. If you want to, you know, if you liked the dancers who wanted to go.
[01:36:33] INTERVIEWER: Could you just describe using [inaudible 01:36:35]
[01:36:35] Sue Burton: Jira bug music, mostly jazz, the blues and things like that didn't come until you're up in 20s. I believe that Jira bug music and I cannot recall. I should have written that down because I used to love to dance rather than eating at that time. They had a town hall where the police station was at the bottom, the level of this building. Then there was a auditorium above the police station. This was one of the brand new buildings in Oxford. That's where they held live with dancers. Lot of times the dancers were just with records which you'd go and you'd have your pop and popcorn and things like that, and just to dance and party.
[01:37:32] INTERVIEWER: Did the music have any particular dances associated with it?
[01:37:40] Sue Burton: Any particular dance. You talk about the styles of dancers. You mean like boogie woogie. [LAUGHTER] That's what it was called back there. You jumped back, and you work it out. [LAUGHTER] But anyway, let me see. The Jira bug was one and the boogie woogie was part of the Jira bug. Because if it's of song. That's it. Now, let's do the boogie woogie then you would do certain dancers within the Jira bug dance. There was a Charleston that kids love to do. That was an old dance for us. That was something that old people used to do. But a lot of times that was something that they played the right music and you could do the Charleston on it.
[01:38:32] INTERVIEWER: What were the popular clothing or hairstyles of this time?
[01:38:37] Sue Burton: Let's see. During that particular time, I think that people just, it all depends on how old you were. It could be pigtails. I used to cut my hair, and my hair was so soft that I couldn't braid it, because if you braid it, it would come right apart. It would just open up again. When I was a teenager I get it cut down to hardly anything in the back. A lot of kids did that. But most of the kids, especially bachelor and they would curl their hair, with the curling iron and whatever style they wanted to do. If they wanted to do it at all, some of them just braid around the crown of their hair. There's so many different styles, especially amongst black kids, that they didn't have all the styles like white children hair because their hair was different.
[01:39:31] INTERVIEWER: Were there any clothing choices that were very popular?
[01:39:35] Sue Burton: They use to have have a skirt called broomstick skirt, and you could almost make them. A lot of kids did make them eventually. A lot of material, and you just stitch in the top of the material to fit you. Then you'd cut out a band. It has doubled material, cut the band out and sew it right onto. Sometimes they could just take a safety pin or put a snap thing in here. But it was all ruffled around here. It was just full and it called a broomstick. Why? I don't know why they called it the name then. A lot of kids just to walk around like job, first. Talk about the horse riding articles that they wear pants that they wore. Different styles popped up at different times of the year, just like now. We didn't wear slacks and pants like we do today. It was always skirts and socks, and shoes or boots.
[01:40:52] INTERVIEWER: Can you describe any other style? Were there any slang terms, phrases, or words used that aren't common today that they used then?
[01:41:05] Sue Burton: I know that there were, but I can't think of a offhand. It might come to me while we're talking, and I'm trying to remember some of them.
[01:41:15] INTERVIEWER: What was the typical thing for you during this period?
[01:41:22] Sue Burton: During this period you're referring to the teenage age or before school?
[01:41:29] INTERVIEWER: During high school, school days.
[01:41:31] Sue Burton: Well, you get up and you go to school, then you had to go home and you had to do your homework immediately. Then whatever type of work that you had to do it the house, if your mother wash clothes and stuff and yet depressed, we didn't not take the sheet on the bed. You had to press the pillow cases, you had to press the seats, fold them, stack them up in a [LAUGHTER] cupboard. You hated that because that's something that you just did not want to do. But it was part of our job to do that. The task around the house. You had to do day work. What I would call a day work is dusting and polishing the furniture and things like that. That was part of my job that I had to do. My brother got away with murder. [LAUGHTER]
[01:42:29] INTERVIEWER: What did you do for fan [inaudible 01:42:30]
[01:42:32] Sue Burton: About the same thing. We roller skate a lot on the street. In a winter, they flooded the tennis court, and the kids will go to this on a campus. Kids would go over there and ice skate on the tennis court. They had one small lake and it was just too much danger. They wouldn't allow us to get on that lake at all. It was man-made, and put in-between the wooded area of one of the campuses.
[01:43:19] INTERVIEWER: What are some things that people on your school did or you did after school like finite queue, like going to the movies or something like that?
[01:43:30] Sue Burton: Well, we went to the movies on Saturdays. It was about the only time you could go to a movie. Some Saturdays, I'll tell you a story that got me into trouble. I have a girlfriend named Helen Bears, and their mothers at one time had taught us how to cook some different things. Then I just got it. I'm going to go to Helen's on Saturday mornings, we're going to let Ms. Bears teaches how to cook things. I did that for about a month. Then my parents decided that we were going to go away that Saturday, and they came down to Ms. Bears to look for me. I wasn't there. I was about 15 now. They found out that I was working and babysitting for one of the coaches at Miami. They had this woman was trying to find someone to help. One of my mother's neighbors told me about this woman that wouldn't help. I went and started working for her for about four weeks. When I was supposed to be at Helen's, I was going to, I can't think of this coach's name, I want so bad to remember. But I went to their home and I helped him, I clean the kitchen and dust a little bit and then they had a little boy. When she would go to the grocery store, I watch. I did it for about an hour and a half every Saturday for about four weeks. My parents found out that where I was and my dad got upset. [NOISE]
[01:45:12] INTERVIEWER: I'm so sorry.
[01:45:12] Sue Burton: No, that's okay. Is All right. That's supposed to be.
[01:45:14] INTERVIEWER: [NOISE] When thinking back on your school years, what social or historical events were taking place at this time, and how did they personally affect you and your family?
[01:45:35] Sue Burton: Thinking about on my school years, the age of my school years or you're referring to what goes on in the school?
[01:45:45] INTERVIEWER: The age of your school years.
[01:45:47] Sue Burton: The age of school.
[01:45:50] Sue Burton: Well, like I told you before, the effect was that my parents had broken up and that affected me quite a bit. It bothered me because of hearing people talk and knowing that things weren't well at my home compared to what it used to be. The separation between my mother and my dad and deciding on who you want to stay with and when you want to go visit whoever it might be and having to live with my grandparents for, I guess, about eight months till things are settled down and we look back to our home. I think they had a lot to do with my concern from my baby sister and my brother had gone into the service by then, so I didn't have to worry about him but just my baby sister and I were at home.
[01:46:52] INTERVIEWER: After you finished high school where did you live?
[01:46:55] Sue Burton: After I finished high school, I lived at home and I went to work from where I live and stayed with my dad and by then he had another wife, we call her stepmother, I guess, you'd call her, and my baby sister was also still there because she was eight years younger than me. I worked at a dry cleaner company. The dry cleaner company had certain areas for just pressing clothes only, cleaning, different things like that and I worked in the area where you press clothes only. I worked there for a while and I worked at the university when I was in high school also. At the university, the job was called The Bells and that meant this office where you worked answering the telephone for a dormitory if you were working at a dormitory, you'd answer the phones and send the mail and put the mail in their individually boxes and that I liked. Then another job that I loved that young people had was working at the dorms in the kitchen, helping make salads and things like that, and putting up dishes and things like that.
[01:48:21] INTERVIEWER: Did you move around during your working adult life?
[01:48:26] Sue Burton: No. I stayed home until I was married.
[01:48:35] INTERVIEWER: I'd like you to tell me about your marriage and family life. First, tell me about your spouse. Where and when did you meet?
[01:48:42] Sue Burton: We grew up together. My spouse and I grew up together. He lived what they call across town and then they eventually moved over to our side of town and about a block and half from us. He and my brother were good friends. They played a lot. As I was telling somebody other night they had a dinner to recognize my husband and this coach, Helen, and I was telling them what I'm going to tell you is that I didn't like my husband. I knew his friends, but I didn't like him because I was a tomboy. My brother and him did I wanted to do I wanted to follow around and they would chase me. That made it easy for me not to like my husband or my brother at that time being a teenager. Then, like I said, I started working and my husband went into the service with his cousin and he came home one day to go see his girlfriend and she had another boyfriend, and I was there waiting on my boyfriend who was in college and he didn't show up. The two of us went out together and we started going out from thereon, [LAUGHTER] and as I said before, I never ever would have thought that we would marry each other so we did. When we got married, we moved to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, where he was stationed in the 82nd Airborne and we lived there for about a year-and-a-half and then came back to Oxford and my husband entered Miami University and we lived on the campus in a married housing.
[01:50:35] INTERVIEWER: What was it like when you were dating?
[01:50:38] Sue Burton: When I was dating, it was nice to be dating. We'd go from our hometown to Middletown, Ohio, where they had recreation of parties and things at the swimming pool area. Then we go to Hamilton, Ohio, which is 14 miles from Oxford, and we'd go to the roller skating building where only blacks could skate on Mondays in that building. That was the only time so it was hard going there and then trying to get up and go to school the next day. But there's times when we could ride with someone and if not, then we get the bus and go there and then we'd catch the last bus home. You had to be on that last bus if you weren't, you're in trouble so we had to get on the last bus, which was 11:45, I think it was, and that got us home about 12:15.
[01:51:41] INTERVIEWER: Tell me about your engagement and wedding.
[01:51:44] Sue Burton: Well, my engagement was interesting. My husband and I went together for a couple of months after we first decided to go out and then he called from Fort Bragg and wanted to know if I would marry him. He told me later that one of the guys out there told him that he should come home and ask me that again, which he did. When my husband was coming home and we were dating before he asked me, he'd leave his hat on our screen door and that told me he was in town. Because back in those days, guys couldn't afford to just get on a plane or have their own car so they'd hop a ride which was like getting on this plane that flew from Fort Bragg to Columbus, Ohio. Then maybe catching a ride on another plane going to Cincinnati, and then maybe catching a bus to Oxford. You never knew when he was going to arrive. But usually it was in the middle of the night, like the last bus coming to Oxford would 12 o'clock. Well, by 12 o'clock as a rule we were in bed asleep. Lots of mornings I wake up and the hat would be on the screen door and that told us that Terrell's in town. Then he bought me a ring and we decided to get married Christmas Eve. We got married on Christmas Eve, my brother and his wife, and then Elmer and real name [inaudible 01:53:20] they were married and they were my close friends and the six of us got married and the man who married me was a man who once married my mother and father years ago. His name was Reverend Francis and then we got married in his home and that was that. Then we went back to my home and to my own bedroom at my father's house, where we stayed until he went back to service. Then he sent for me and I flew into Fort Bragg. I think it was like we got married in December and I think I flew into Fort Bragg maybe the second or third day in January or something like that.
[01:54:12] INTERVIEWER: You're having kids. What did your family enjoy doing together when your kids were still at home?
[01:54:17] Sue Burton: Go to football games, [LAUGHTER] mainly go fishing, we go to Minneapolis every summer for I think about 11 years, take the kids and we go up there to some friends of ours. We grew up with these people and go fishing at Minnetonka Lake and we'd be up there for about a week. Then the other times we just visit. The Hamilton's 15 miles away which Ohio, Middletown was 18 miles away. Just places like that that we would visit and that was all I can think of right off hand. With kids is basically we just were busy doing things with our kids all the time.
[01:55:05] INTERVIEWER: Are there any special days, events or family traditions you practice that differred from your childhood traditions?
[01:55:17] Sue Burton: Not really. Our holidays are about the same. We celebrate our anniversary on Christmas Eve and the kids would always come in. They'll be there to share it with us and then Christmas Day was the next day and as you knew next day but the idea that we celebrate by opening one package on Christmas Eve, and for Terrell and I and then the Christmas morning we'd celebrate with my adult kids. They stayed that way for years.
[01:55:52] INTERVIEWER: During your adult years, what was the popular music and dances that were popular?
[01:56:01] Sue Burton: It was just a jazz or slow dance music that, when I was a teenager, are still the ones that we listen to today, and back in those days forever really, because they were pretty popular. Dorsi and Count Basie, and I could just name go on and on with those names in there.
[01:56:31] INTERVIEWER: Were there any slang terms, phrases and words that during your adult years were popular but now aren't?
[01:56:41] Sue Burton: Sling birds, I can't think of any. I know there are plenty of them, but I can't think of any of those right now.
[01:56:48] INTERVIEWER: Any hairstyles or clothing or any thing like that?
[01:56:52] Sue Burton: No. Whatever is going on within the news or in the papers, then if you follow those things, if you like them you just attach yourself to whatever is popular during this particular time. They were in the sports a lot, so wear more or less sporty clothes, casual clothes.
[01:57:17] INTERVIEWER: When thinking back on your working adult life, what important social or historical events were taking place at that time and how did they personally affect you and your family?
[01:57:27] Sue Burton: Would you please read that again?
[01:57:30] INTERVIEWER: Sure. When thinking back about your adult life, what important social or historical events were taking place at that time, and how did they personally affect you?
[01:57:42] Sue Burton: It affected me very much because most of the times that we socialized, it was with our friends and these people that we grew up with in Oxford, Ohio. Just like we have a friend named Hank Williams, he had eight kids. His brother had eight kids. His other brother had three, and so they had a big family. There's Hank family and then there's a Jefferson family, and all of these people that had these kids, we were married 10 years before we had any children. So all of these other kids, I mean all of them called us aunt Sue and uncle [inaudible 01:58:18] because I think there was adult before they realized we weren't kin. That's how close we were. Our social life was with a lot of people plus my husband was coaching most of the time, so that was another thing that the coaching families that we learn to be with and grew up with. That was actually our busy social life. Plenty of light here it's great to [inaudible 01:58:55] [NOISE] Any other teachers have come by? I don't think I've seen any teachers [OVERLAPPING]
[01:59:03] INTERVIEWER: When we are filming, they're not allowed to be able to stop, sign, to come in. But sometimes there's [inaudible 01:59:12] someone who Michigan has especially for the junior class for legacy projects that comes in and oversees our first interviews [inaudible 01:59:24] . Yeah, and then he's going to come back for editing and there's another woman who also comes in, so yeah.
[01:59:36] Sue Burton: Got you.
[01:59:37] INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Usually there are teachers outside the magnet.
[01:59:39] Sue Burton: No. I just wanted to see who is responsible for you guys, [LAUGHTER] just to see. I believe it. Do I need to put this cup down? Is that okay?
[01:59:56] INTERVIEWER: There is no rush yeah. [BACKGROUND]
[02:00:21] Sue Burton: Now what I want to know, are you waiting for me to finish this coffee?
[02:00:25] INTERVIEWER: No.
[02:00:26] Sue Burton: That's what I wanted. I didn't want to have to wait. This is helping to wake me up.
[02:00:33] INTERVIEWER: I know that morning announcement in the hallway. I never noticed it was so loud. [OVERLAPPING] It was him, she was like this is not that loud.
[02:00:45] Sue Burton: I couldn't remember that being that way before I was here.
[02:00:50] INTERVIEWER: Actually, CBP students in this magnet sophomores, and some juniors are the one who do the announcements. So it's usually students doing it to the sophomore softer voice, I guess. He is very energized.
[02:01:03] Sue Burton: I can't believe it. [BACKGROUND] That's one of the senior staff. You said older students?
[02:01:17] INTERVIEWER: She's a sophomore, sophomores have to do it at least once, I think, and then juniors, we have PC students Jayden and Jonathan who are in our class, and they did it like every day during their sophomore year until this cared if they're out. They're really good at it.
[02:01:42] Sue Burton: All of you guys had a good holidays and went by fast, didn't it?
[02:01:47] MALE_3: It did. Did you do anything?
[02:01:49] Sue Burton: I'm just telling her I celebrate my 89th birthday, Easter, 1st April.
[02:01:55] INTERVIEWER: Oh, my brothers birthday is on Easter.
[02:01:56] Sue Burton: Is it I really?
[02:01:57] INTERVIEWER: That was my grandmother's actually, probably the day before.
[02:02:01] Sue Burton: Perfect. That's close.
[02:02:03] MALE_3: How did you celebrate?
[02:02:05] Sue Burton: I went to church and had a great service there and then my daughter came in from Evanston, Illinois, and she invited some friends of mine and my brother and this other group, we went to Gandy Dancer. I will say I've not been there for brunch. I've been there before, but not for a brunch. All the food in the world. The sausage and eggs, I don't like eggs anyway scrambled. But I went for the shrimp and the salad, and they're just delicious. It's really been salmon. You've got to save up some money so you can get down there. That's what I'm going to do, I'm going to to save up so I can go back. This is good, whoever made it.
[02:03:01] INTERVIEWER: I don't know who makes the coffee. I think [inaudible 02:03:02]. You made it?
[02:03:06] FEMALE_1: I did it wrong. I don't know what I did wrong though, she was just like, you did it wrong.
[02:03:13] INTERVIEWER: First trimester in October, [inaudible 02:03:15] was testing out different coffee brands, and seeing which one we liked the best, which one was best received. So that one was best.
[02:03:23] Sue Burton: You drinking coffee also.
[02:03:23] INTERVIEWER: I'm having water. I think I think I've allergies, but it's like pre allergies.
[02:03:31] Sue Burton: Certain times of years.
[02:03:33] INTERVIEWER: Because [inaudible 02:03:34] visual allergies out. I think I have pre-allergies, because my throat is getting a little itchy. I'm not sick though. Well, I can come to school, I'm fine.
[02:03:43] Sue Burton: That's the way it is. I have like [inaudible 02:03:49] especially this time of year and then it's not serious like when everyone else is dying from the flowers and all that. But yeah.
[02:03:56] MALE_3: Maddison, is the audio good?
[02:03:56] FEMALE_1: Yeah.
[02:04:13] Sue Burton: Thank you, ma'am. Thank you.
[02:04:14] INTERVIEWER: Anything more? You're good?
[02:04:16] Sue Burton: I'm fine.
[02:04:20] INTERVIEWER: Okay.
[02:04:25] Sue Burton: Get on with the show. I got to do something for you because you're just sitting there too quiet so we want to make sure that you can hear okay today, and everything's fine, good.
[02:04:49] INTERVIEWER: You ready? It's time to turn off or silence cellphones, pagers or anything else that [inaudible 02:04:59] or otherwise makes noises. You can call for a break anytime that you want. Also, please remember that you can decline to answer any question or terminate the interview at any time.
[02:05:11] Sue Burton: Let me check the cellphone just to make sure.
[02:05:15] INTERVIEWER: Yeah. [NOISE]
[02:06:17] INTERVIEWER: Hey, so good morning.
[02:06:18] Sue Burton: Morning. [LAUGHTER]
[02:06:19] INTERVIEWER: We really enjoyed learning about you in the fall. We're so happy to see you again. This time we'll be asking some questions that will help us produce 3-5 minute video. We'll be asking questions more than once so we can portray the best answers for our final product. We may also asked to film you and location outside of skylights, which we'll talk about at the end of interview. For a video project we want to focus on the main things need admire about you which is your ability to triumph over adversity. We might repeat some of the questions that we did last time. The first set of questions, talk just on your childhood then life in your church community. Where did you grow up?
[02:07:09] Sue Burton: I grew up in Oxford, Ohio.
[02:07:16] INTERVIEWER: [inaudible 02:07:16] How many siblings did you have?
[02:07:18] Sue Burton: I have three brothers and two sisters.
[02:07:26] INTERVIEWER: Where were you in the birth order?
[02:07:29] Sue Burton: I was third, the birth order.
[02:07:34] INTERVIEWER: Please share what is your favorite childhood memories?
[02:07:40] Sue Burton: I was thinking the first childhood memory that I had where I was really happening was in nursery school. It was like a two blocks from where I lived in a church and the ladies random there in school were just sweethearts, very nice to children. We learned a lot. We learned how to set the table at five years old, and good nap. During the time that we were there, spent time all day with them.
[02:08:15] INTERVIEWER: We like to learn more about your parents, how did they meet?
[02:08:20] Sue Burton: I have no idea. Can't think about it, I have no idea. My mother lived 14 miles from where my father lived and I have no idea how they met.
[02:08:36] INTERVIEWER: Did they work outside the home?
[02:08:37] Sue Burton: My mother did not. My father was a mechanic, automobile mechanic.
[02:08:43] INTERVIEWER: How would you describe your parents personalities?
[02:08:52] Sue Burton: Fun, [LAUGHTER] my mother was more outgoing than my father, but he was really a nice guy and they cared a lot for us. They cared a lot for us and wanted us to learn and see things that we did not see at Knoxville Ohio.
[02:09:12] INTERVIEWER: Was one more serious than the other, you could say?
[02:09:18] Sue Burton: I think my dad was more serious to a point, that's basically when it comes to matters and making sure that all is well in the house with the kids.
[02:09:28] INTERVIEWER: What we're both of your parents, would you describe your parents as being strict parents or being pretty?
[02:09:36] Sue Burton: Well, I think at that time they weren't strict. You just were who you were. You use your mind and it was yes, ma'am and no, ma'am. Yes, sir. No, sir. I think the strict part came if they somebody says we answered like, I don't know or if that's not the way you were supposed to talk at that time.
[02:09:59] INTERVIEWER: How long were your parents together?
[02:10:01] Sue Burton: My parents were together, they were divorced. They eventually became divorced. But they were together about I would think maybe 30 years that they were together.
[02:10:26] INTERVIEWER: How old were you when your parents got divorced?
[02:10:30] Sue Burton: Here we go again [LAUGHTER] let's see. I guess I had to be about 14.
[02:10:39] INTERVIEWER: What was that time period?
[02:10:42] Sue Burton: What was the time period? Such as?
[02:10:46] INTERVIEWER: Which decade? Was it the 1940s, '50s, what?
[02:10:53] Sue Burton: I'm trying to think when I got out of school. Let's see. It had to be in the late '40s or early '50s or late '40s because I was married in '50.
[02:11:09] INTERVIEWER: Sometimes we are unaware of what is happening with our parents. Were you aware of what was happening with your parents during the divorce?
[02:11:16] Sue Burton: I was aware, indeed I was aware. From some of the people that adults that did a lot of talking, it was mainly what they were calling the battle, when we were going through the change at the time and how the husband couldn't provide, I won't say provide because that wasn't true. Couldn't handle the situation with the way that the illness that she was having at that time.
[02:11:45] INTERVIEWER: What was happening was mainly because of financial?
[02:11:48] Sue Burton: No. No financial, nothing. It was just her illness.
[02:11:55] INTERVIEWER: What was your living situation like after the divorce?
[02:12:00] Sue Burton: It was still good because, we stayed with my dad because he was a provider, financial provider. We had our home and went to school, whatever it was to be done was done with being at home, being an Oxford, and my mother moved to about 14 miles away to live with her mother and care for her mother.
[02:12:25] INTERVIEWER: Growing up, did you see your mom a lot?
[02:12:28] Sue Burton: All the time? Especially on the weekends. My father had a business in that town that my mother lived in. When he would go to work like on Fridays if we were out of school, we could go down then or else even though Friday, we could catch a bus and go visit and just spend a whole weekend with him.
[02:12:49] INTERVIEWER: Did all your siblings lived together?
[02:12:53] Sue Burton: No. My sister was older than I and she was probably in school at that time, college at that time. My brother at that time was in the service, so that left me and my baby sister, which was eight years younger than mine at home.
[02:13:14] INTERVIEWER: Commuting back and forth, was that a lot for you good enough or do you handle it?
[02:13:20] Sue Burton: [OVERLAPPING] Oh, no. We did that simply because it was easier to get there because my dad was working then we'd get the catch the bus. Especially, if it's on a weekend, then we would have to catch the bus to go down to visit and about 25.50 for about 15 miles to go. We also would catch that same bus to go to rollerskate, to the roller rink. It was just something that was available for kids to do.
[02:13:56] INTERVIEWER: Were your parents on good terms after that?
[02:13:58] Sue Burton: Yes. Indeed, they were. Yeah.
[02:14:01] INTERVIEWER: Is there any examples maybe of how they were on good terms, did they talk to each other still?
[02:14:06] Sue Burton: Yes, and they wanted to make sure that well, just like if we were going to visit my mother my dad would want to make sure how we were treated and how we were acting, and whatnot. If we had enough money to do what we needed to do when we were there. But it was just okay. To be honest with you, because he provided meals and clothing and whatnot, and so there was no disagreement with anything involving us.
[02:14:45] INTERVIEWER: Right when they got divorced, was it always on good terms or didn't have that?
[02:14:49] Sue Burton: That I don't have any idea. I don't remember that at all.
[02:14:54] INTERVIEWER: How did the divorce impact your life, socially, personally, at school?
[02:15:03] Sue Burton: It bothered me a lot. One thing, I guess, neighbors or people gossip and talk. Back in those days regarding what you did whether it was good or bad, there's always talk to be had and small village and kids tease you if your hair didn't look nice or it looked different. Or if you didn't have this particular outfit where most kids just like today. If you're not dressed similar to the rest of the kids and you were talked and teased about, but other than that, that was about it.
[02:15:47] INTERVIEWER: Was there I guess gossip when your parents had divorced?
[02:15:51] Sue Burton: There could be with adults, but I didn't do.
[02:15:55] INTERVIEWER: Going to school, was there any change after your parents got divorced and kids are treating you differently?
[02:16:02] Sue Burton: Indeed, there was saints for me. Because my sister was gone and my brother was gone and I just had me and my baby sister and I was concerned about her and it was hard to even think of trying to concentrate in school because I was a cry baby I think, even though I was a little older than a teen.
[02:16:26] INTERVIEWER: At what age did you start going to church on a regular basis?
[02:16:36] Sue Burton: Since I can remember, my mother always took us to church. That's like maybe five, I can't remember exactly, but I love going with her. I just love going to church period really.
[02:16:54] INTERVIEWER: Actually the other question. Was there many divorces during the 1940s and during that timeframe where you grew up?
[02:17:00] Sue Burton: Oh, I have no idea though
[02:17:05] INTERVIEWER: How did your church community support you during these trying times in your life like your parents getting divorced?
[02:17:16] Sue Burton: Well, however I was involved in church, was easy to do music, I like to be in the choir and as a teenager, I loved to be in the choir and it was just a Baptist church and they just accepted you for who you were and they probably did gossip in too for all I know, but I was treated well.
[02:17:45] INTERVIEWER: We're they comforting to you, were adults?
[02:17:51] Sue Burton: I have been crying and I've had adults cheering me, trying to cheer me up and some of that I can remember I can remember a lady named Ms. Ethel Johnson who saw me sitting on my grandparents, and she would come up to me and she said, I know how you feel and not to worry. She helped me I'll never forget that as long as I live. That was just one, but I just discovered that there was another lady a friend of my mothers that had written me some information about our family history and I did not know that until after you kids came to me. I just learned that not too long ago.
[02:18:40] INTERVIEWER: Do you mind repeating?
[02:18:42] Sue Burton: I received a letter from a lady named Ms. Warren and she lived down the street from us and I loved her. She was such a nice lady and going through some of my things just since I've been coming here and I ran across the letter from her and she had written some history about the family and about people I had no idea I knew but had no idea we were connected to them at all.
[02:19:15] INTERVIEWER: When you found out that your parents were getting divorced, what were your initial thoughts of divorce.
[02:19:22] Sue Burton: I don't remember any of that, all I know is that it was happening and I think anything that happened to me about the divorce came after it had happened that there was a separation between my mom and things like that, but other than that, I don't recall much of anything about my mom and dad as far as any disturbance or anything like that.
[02:19:49] INTERVIEWER: At first going back and forth, were you sad about going back in Florida, were you mad or were you contend? [OVERLAPPING]
[02:19:58] Sue Burton: I was not, I was treated my grandmother and my mother's house as well as I was treated at my dad's. I suppose I should say, our house where I lived. I had grandparents lived around the corner, my father's folks lived around the corner and this I'll say I had the feeling that they were happy about my mom, and there was times when I felt that they didn't like my mom and that would disturb me but other than that, I couldn't see anything else that would be against them either.
[02:20:44] INTERVIEWER: How's your church community influenced your personal development?
[02:20:49] Sue Burton: I think the happiness that I received at church and just being there and being with other young folks and having to be in choir practice and singing what not.
[02:21:03] INTERVIEWER: Do you think that if you didn't go to church that the way that your young life was to be completely different?
[02:21:12] Sue Burton: Indeed it would very different. It's was just joy to be there and that didn't stop me from being joyful or happy at home either, but just the fun part of being there because there wasn't that much to do in our hometown. If you were in the sports skating or something like that, things like that you could do but when it comes to Sundays you just look forward to going to church.
[02:21:49] INTERVIEWER: You mentioned this bur many missed it, but did your entire family go to church at once and then when they got divorced it was different or?
[02:21:56] Sue Burton: No my mother, my dad always stayed home and he listened to a church service every Sunday, I think the radio station was from Indianapolis, Indiana and he listened do that every Sunday and we went to church, my mom always took me to church.
[02:22:16] INTERVIEWER: The second set of questions, I'm going to focus on some of the challenges that you encountered, so where did you live during the great depression?
[02:22:26] Sue Burton: I was just born, that's how old I am. [LAUGHTER] I was just being born. I was just a kid.
[02:22:37] INTERVIEWER: What stage in your life where you during the great depression?
[02:22:41] Sue Burton: Like I said, I was just born in 29, 1929 when all this was going on and from what I can remember, we've never had to work for anything in our home, and never had to work for anything for literally anything. When you grow up and you learn that you were born in the depression, you wonder what was that? Because we've never had to work for anything my father had a good job, and not only that, when he'd go to work in Hamilton, Ohio, which like I said was 14 miles from where we lived then he would come home and work on cars from the people in our home hometown. He was a good mechanic and folks would always bring the cars and he'd work in his garage on those cars and so I can't remember ever wanting for anything as a child.
[02:23:40] INTERVIEWER: Did you see other people in your community maybe facing more harder struggles or?
[02:23:46] Sue Burton: I have seen them. I've seen quite a few folks that were poor, literally poor, but there's a difference when you live in a small town people care about each other and whether you would be black or white, they always worked together because this was the integrated town and neighbors were neighbors. So as far as anyone needing anything, I think that whoever was their neighbor would be there if they were or they could supply something for them that they would share it.
[02:24:28] INTERVIEWER: Do you think living in a small town when your parents got divorced, you think it made it worse or better being in the small town?
[02:24:37] Sue Burton: There's no way to know that, I wouldn't know, what difference it would make in the city or not. When you have friends in your hometown and I imagined the city, the neighbors would probably be friendly so I can't really compare those two.
[02:24:57] INTERVIEWER: Living as full handed did it help after the divorce.
[02:25:04] Sue Burton: [FOREIGN] I don't know. I can't tell any.
[02:25:08] INTERVIEWER: Were you aware of any signs that the country was going through a very difficult time? Did you know there was a Depression happening?
[02:25:18] Sue Burton: Not as a child, no.
[02:25:24] INTERVIEWER: Did your church community help during the Great Depression and your governor with economic difficulty?
[02:25:32] Sue Burton: That I don't have any idea. You mentioned the people that went to church are probably just as some were not rich. But there were rich people in the city, but the people that went to church, I don t think that they were any better off than those who didn't go to church. No.
[02:25:54] INTERVIEWER: You said previously that you saw people never poor in your community, and with that youth plans, what was that like seeing that?
[02:26:09] Sue Burton: To see that they were born than what we were, I guess as a child or you just felt sorry for them. I remember seeing kids come to school with fairly decent clothing or anything like that, but people were just people back in those days and I think whatever you had and didn't have, you're still respected. I think that made a big difference there that no matter what you had or didn't have, that people cared more about you than the material things that they didn't have.
[02:26:58] INTERVIEWER: What was it like an African-American during the 40s and 50s?
[02:27:04] Sue Burton: During the '40s, we had everything that we could want for in our hometown. The only thing that we realized that you couldn't do was go into the restaurants and sit down and go into the swimming pool. Other than that, it really didn't seem to matter anyway. A lot of kids would go to it, it was a Greek, and they go down there and just swish and whatever. I didn't do that because my brother wouldn't allow me, but as a child, that's one of the places that black kids would go a lot to play and then be in the water. Something else I had in mind was going to say. First thing I'd say was about the swimming pool or the restaurant. Our town was small, you walked two blocks and where we live and there was a main street and then that main street were the restaurants. Why would you go two blocks to go sit down in a restaurant when you're at home with a good meal of your own? I think the thing that might have happened for the reason that they didn't want blacks in there was because there was a college town. It might be because they didn't want the students, if they were black students, to come into the restaurant. Because I know for sure that the residents could care less about going into a restaurant and then are in Oxford.
[02:28:53] INTERVIEWER: Knowing that you restricted your vendors to areas did that make you mad going up or?
[02:29:01] Sue Burton: We didn't like the idea that that's what it was. But to be angry, I don't think that anyone my age at that time was upset about being able to go swimming pool over or go to a restaurant. There was a time when about four black men just came out of the army. In fact, they might have been still in the army and they came home on furlough, that's what it was. They went into the swimming pool and they declared that their parents had been paying taxes all these years and they were going to swim. That's stopped that. I was a teenager, I had not been married that time. That had to be back in the late '40s, about 47, 48. from that day on, it could not stop [LAUGHTER].
[02:30:07] INTERVIEWER: Do you have any memories encountering racism going after?
[02:30:14] Sue Burton: Not as much as you would in a Southern town or maybe a city, I'm not sure. To be called a name was one of the main things I think that was when we think in terms of racism, because we lived in an integrated city. If there was a poor section that was white and black in that fourth section. It was a middle income, that's the way it was. But to be honest with you, our neighbors on the lumber company and a doctor lived two doors down from us, so it was more or less, like I say, integrated. That's all it was to, it wasn't where the rich lived in certain areas, but the poor did live in certain areas. These to call it the bottoms, and that meant whites and blacks in the fourth section. I noticed when I was home last, if they've got an area outside of Oxford, that's many people [LAUGHTER]. I don't know why they did that for it. But there's a certain area where there's very, very exclusive homes that the whole city is still integrated.
[02:31:38] INTERVIEWER: School throughout your life you moved from Oxford, was there more racism when you moved out of Oxford?
[02:31:49] Sue Burton: I didn't move out off until I got married, and we were at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. There was racism there. But I didn't not encounter as much as I thought I would. I learned that there were people that were honest about not wanting to deal with blacks, and there are people in my hometown that were that way but they were deceitful, you didn't know it unless there's something that come up that they spoke out about. It was nicer when I went.
[02:32:29] INTERVIEWER: Did you see other people encountering more severe racism than you didn't or was it?
[02:32:36] Sue Burton: Where I moved to?
[02:32:37] INTERVIEWER: Either in both Oxford or?
[02:32:39] Sue Burton: Not really not in Oxford.
[02:32:43] INTERVIEWER: What about North Carolina?
[02:32:46] Sue Burton: Well, I'll tell you a story. There was a lady there that we became friends with and went to the store with her. We were leaving and I was thirsty and I went to get some water. She kept saying, girl, come on. I said, please just a minute. I'm thirsty. But girl, and I don't know what was her hurry, but I got to have some water. I got to the fountain and got me some water. When I got back, I realized that had white only on it. In the meantime, there was two white lady standing by the door and they were just smiling because they knew that I was new, and they laughed about it, and that was the only time that I can remember ever knowing that there was racism to me. I just didn't think too much about it. We went to the theater and there's a little balcony, and we get to sit up in the balcony to watch the movie because whites were downstairs. But that's about the only time that I can remember because everyone else seemed to be courteous and nice no matter where or where.
[02:34:00] INTERVIEWER: Can you describe what have you walk in, what secretion and the sign what it may be described with that was like or what it looks like?
[02:34:12] Sue Burton: I didn't see those signs. I want to be honest with you. I take it back. We flew into the airport in some part of North Carolina early, how do I put this, another part of the state and there was small plane and they picked us someone. At that time the plane landed and I was taken from Cincinnati to this place. We got off the plane and went to this restaurant. Everyone sat at the counter and the tables and I'm going to sit at the counter. That's when they told me that I could not sit there. They took me around to a place that it was just like this was a stairway. Under the stairway is a beautiful little table sitting there. That's where they had me sit to eat and I couldn't eat. I think I got it pop or something like that because I just didn't have the appetite. I guess just the idea that that was happening. I wish that the pilot had said that was going to happen, but he didn't say anything like that. Anyway, then from there, they flew into Fort Bragg, North Carolina. As soon as I get out of the plane and come into the area, that's when I saw two signs on the door. There was a restaurant, I guess something there. I can't remember exactly what it was, but that's the only time that I've seen because if you live on the pulse, you don't necessarily have to go in town all the time because there's enough things on the pulse. Let's face it, that was enlargement that you don't have to go into town. I had friends that I had met through this young lady and go in town for church and stuff like that, but I just didn't encounter anything else other than that.
[02:36:22] INTERVIEWER: Is it strange pulling from Ohio very integrated town, very seldom compared to the south. Then moving to the south and seeing other sign gently come from the airport. Was that strange or what was going on?
[02:36:36] Sue Burton: No, I don't think it was strange. Since you hear or learn about these things before you even get there. It's a surprise when you first see it because you forget that this was happening. Then once you get there, you know this is the way it is. But I never had any disturbance of any type. Most people were smiling. In fact, the mutation was a white lady that worked with the blacks in the South, a cosmetology place. And she was a darling person. She wasn't married to a black man. She was just the white woman that worked in this salon, so everything was pretty good to me.
[02:37:33] INTERVIEWER: When we talked through the phone, it was clear to us that you loved your husband very much. And if you're comfortable sharing, I'd like to ask you a few questions, is that okay?
[02:37:43] Sue Burton: It's okay.
[02:37:45] INTERVIEWER: How old were you when you and your husband met?
[02:37:48] Sue Burton: Oh, about five years old [inaudible 02:37:50] .
[02:37:52] INTERVIEWER: How did you meet?
[02:37:55] Sue Burton: My neighbors. There was a lady that took care of children and she lived up on the second floor of my husband's parents home. She and her husband and her name is Max Barry. She would take care of kids [inaudible 02:38:10] or whatnot. She took care of us and we will stay in her home like my mother's in the hospital, and they took care of us. My husband, Terrell, lived downstairs. I had to go to school. Mrs. Max Barry, if I can remember very well she said, you make sure you wait for Sue. She called me Ursula. Very few people did, but she said, you wait to Ursula before. When you get out of school, don't leave her. That was across town from where we used to live. He had to wait to walk me home to their home. But that's how we come in contact with Terrell. Then the university bought that property, and they moved their home, literally moved their home over to our side of town. That made him our neighbor, it was two blocks we lived together.
[02:39:22] INTERVIEWER: We learned that there are five stages of grief, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. As you sit with us today, what stage best describes where you are in the process?
[02:39:34] Sue Burton: Right now? I haven't changed too much from when he left, to be honest with you. We've been married 66 years, and you've been married that long it's just like this right arm or something, you understand? Because you expect for it to turn it around and see him standing here or whatnot. It's been hard. But something happened another day. But minister speaking about letting go. They were speaking in terms of the finding Jesus going from the grave, in the tomb [inaudible 02:40:24] close left there. She was saying that's the same thing that's it happened to all of us. That could be for anyone that's had a problem, but maybe they're broke and you're worried about rent. That all of this was to say, I'll stop the close normally and go on about your life. That helped me think about things about knowing that you've got to face it sooner or later, so I think that's what's helped me in the last couple of days.
[02:41:02] INTERVIEWER: Would you say that you were on the acceptance, the final stage?
[02:41:07] Sue Burton: Definitely, yeah.
[02:41:09] Sue Burton: Although I keep his picture by my bed all the time.
[02:41:15] INTERVIEWER: If you could share how your family and the Jewish community had been supporting you during this difficult time.
[02:41:24] Sue Burton: I tell you that I've gotten I've received a couple of books that supposed to help me if I read them, I couldn't read all of it. I read a couple of pages and I just couldn't go any further. At the first time that I got these books, I could probably sit down now and go through it. But at that time I could naturally got a lot of cards and cause a lot of phone calls and a lot of people have still not heard about my husband passing, so that's been a surprising to hear from some people, but I think that's the main thing is just that church, there's about three women who have lost their husbands. They've consulted me and talk to me about how they've been doing and that's a big help also.
[02:42:25] INTERVIEWER: Again, do you think that without your your church community. When your husband passed away. Would've been completely different the way you were grieving and the way you were supported?
[02:42:35] Sue Burton: Say that again.
[02:42:37] INTERVIEWER: Do you think that without your church community, that when your husband passed away, you would have been completely different and like how you aggrieved?
[02:42:48] Sue Burton: That's true. Absolutely true. As a matter of fact, my husband didn't attend church. He was a type of guy, said you've got enough money. The church insisted that I had money to for church. And he never went. He was a golfer. He loved being outside. My church is small compared to what we needed for a funeral for him, and the church I can't not think of the name of the church right now. Right here on Liberty. Hate for this interview to be going well, I'm saying this but I can't say anyway, this particular church. My son used to work there and my son called up and said, could my dad could we use this church for a funeral? They just said yes, with no hesitation. That was a blessing for us. Then we learned from a neighbor that was the largest services he's ever seen over there far as cars and what's not. We knew then that we had picked the right place to have this funeral. But a minister, my ministers spoke, and a nephew of mine spoke at the funeral. Then we had a guy from red shirts That's saying everyone wanted to know where it came from, Augustus. That is professional, but he wasn't. He's not. But that's how that went for the to know that there's somebody there that you didn't know that was willing to help you and that was the church.
[02:44:39] INTERVIEWER: You've mentioned that you move in Ohio then Carolina, and then she settled here. You moved churches I'm guessing. Was there a different atmosphere in each church or was it all really?
[02:44:57] Sue Burton: Well, we move from the Old town to North Carolina. We came here. I'm came to Miami back home from Islam Chinn College there. Then we left there what Cincinnati live there about 10 years or so. Then we left there 68 root to small town outside of Dayton because he was teaching at Central State of Ohio. Then we left there and move back home and he took coaching there for one year and then we moved up here. Each place was nice to be attending church. You're always welcome in each church.
[02:45:48] INTERVIEWER: Thank you so much for sharing that. The second set of questions, and we're going to focus on how these experiences and challenges shaped who you are. How is the thing? Do the great depression affected the way you manage your financial life?
[02:46:08] Sue Burton: Well, I didn't have to worry about that financial part as a child, and that's what it would have been for these 10 years from the time I was born until they finally started making things smoothly for financial purposes though. I guess I've always not wanted to be broke. As a rule, when we were married, when we first got married, if we had a bill to pay. We'll pay it and whatever is leftover, we divided between the two of us. If it was $5, we got to 50 piece. If it was $20, we got 10. I couldn't ask my husband for any money if I spent all of mine and he couldn't ask for any of mine. That's the way it's always been from the time we were married. Pay your bills first. Don't get anything unless you can pay for it.
[02:47:07] INTERVIEWER: Do you think that, with your parents divorce affected who you really married.
[02:47:18] Sue Burton: Nothing to do with it. I never would've thought I'd married Terrell. He was just a friend of ours and my brother were buddies. That's why I wear this today. He gave me this turtle about 35 years ago. Just about 35 years ago, and his name was terrible. Nickname was terrible because kids could not pronounce Terrell. When they were kids, they still they started calling him terrible. Then when he's in college, he's track star. Then what the athletic trainer made a comment in the paper that Terrell a terrible burden did this or that did this a broken record this. That turtle turbo went along with his name. That's what we always would call him, sir. Terrible luck. [LAUGHTER] Then there's a couple of guys are called him tiger because he was a good golfer. But that's that's how that went along. My brother and his buddies would call him terrible. This is a memory.
[02:48:35] INTERVIEWER: How your experiences with racial discrimination or seeing racial discrimination around you affected the way that you treat others?
[02:48:45] Sue Burton: I'm different than most people, I think this. Let me tell you this. I got 28 birthday cards, nine telephone goals, 20 emails. I take it back, 10 emails and they're all saying how happy I am, you know, and that this and blah, blah. This is good. That's how I feel. I don't like anyone. Maybe the president, liked the way he acts. But other than that, I don't dislike anyone. I get angry sometimes but it goes away fast because I can't stand heating. I just can't stand heating and I can't remember anyone that I could really hate. I just can't handle it. I like to be happy, and I cloud a lot. [LAUGHTER] By that I mean, I joke a lot and try to be happy all the time. Doesn't work all the time, but that's what I tried real hard to do.
[02:49:56] INTERVIEWER: I just curious how [NOISE] [inaudible 02:49:56] .
[02:49:56] Sue Burton: Well, I wasn't married woman, so I had to be. I got married when I was 21. Both of us are 21 at that time and at one year we went to downtown Cincinnati and March in the group. This is a lot of prayers that have to happen when things, when you see things like this happening. Because you can't always put your hands on. Or be there were you'd like to be when you know that there's a marching or whatever it might be. I'm yet to sympathize with people that don't like other people. They don't really know what they're missing. Because there's so much good in everyone. The bad cases, if you allow a person that seemed to be mean, if you just get to know that person, there might be a reason why they're mean, but it's just sad that you have to hate. You don't like it too, can help with dislike it. But you can't eat back. That's how I've always felt. Were children, these kids are calling you names. You taste them all over town and you'd catch him. I never did, but there was some some kids that especially in lower income that we're just just hateful to a point because they know they're being mistreated, and so they want to take their anger out on someone. But you can still can't solve the problem. But what's going on today? How people act, which is set to be yourself. You have to be yourself.
[02:52:09] INTERVIEWER: You were very involved in church. [NOISE]
[02:52:17] INTERVIEWER: If you are comfortable, we'd like to hear your viewpoint on some of the issues that the young people are also concerned about. Do you mind if we ask you that?
[02:52:25] Sue Burton: No.
[02:52:27] INTERVIEWER: Okay. So what is your viewpoint about the Black Lives Matter movement?
[02:52:31] Sue Burton: I think it's a good thing. It's definitely good thing. I think it should always stay. As young people that are coming up today may not realize exactly what that means. And for that to be happening and they're going to ask questions. What does Black Lives mean? It means that you've been mistreated and you're entitled to God's help and God's way of life, like anyone else is supposed to be treated. I think that's the best thing I can think of; it's just important that the statement stays forever.
[02:53:23] INTERVIEWER: Were you involved in any protests at any point in your life?
[02:53:28] Sue Burton: Only when we lived in Cincinnati. Like I said, we went downtown to march. I think if we had been living in an area where it was such a hurtful treatment, we might have been more involved. But yet and still you do not have to be there to be involved in anything. Just go ahead and do what you got to do. So with our church we were involved in a lot of activities when it comes to fighting for social justice. And that's where I like to be.
[02:54:06] INTERVIEWER: So would you mind giving us some examples of how the church did that?
[02:54:10] Sue Burton: It was not how they did it, it's that they were doing it every day. This is an integrated church to begin with. And that means any walk of life, whether you're gay or not, whether you're rich or poor, whether you're a doctor or a lawyer, it does not matter. You walk through those doors, and you're welcome. And that's one of the most important things that I feel it has to be in my life, is to be in this particular church. I was in other churches, but I still felt that this was a place for me because of the way that I'm treated by all members of the church. And to know that they have different programs. I can't list them all, but they have different programs that they're fighting for racial justice.
[02:55:07] INTERVIEWER: And have you been involved in any protests for Black Lives Matter or involved in that? [inaudible 02:55:08]? So did you go to any of the protests for Black Lives Matter?
[02:55:08] Sue Burton: No, I did not. No. Had I been younger I think I would have gone. Like I said in Cincinnati, that there's different areas of the city that did that and we'd get involved that way. But just the only one time that we went downtown did we get involved.
[02:55:41] INTERVIEWER: In my first protest, there was this type of feeling that you get when you're part of a protest that's just so unifying and everything about that. So when you went to protest, did you feel the same way, or how did you feel when you were at that protest?
[02:55:58] Sue Burton: I felt proud. That's about the only word I can think of. I just felt proud to be able to represent my people. That's the only thing I can really think of is felt good that was able to do it because some people can't. And so that was one of the things that, as long as you're able, I think you should represent.
[02:56:25] INTERVIEWER: And then at your protest, was is disruptive or was it peaceful?
[02:56:28] Sue Burton: Peaceful.
[02:56:32] INTERVIEWER: And then what is your viewpoint on the recent march for our lives that grabbed the unacceptable increase of school shootings?
[02:56:39] Sue Burton: Say that again. I didn't get it.
[02:56:42] INTERVIEWER: What is your viewpoint on the recent march for our lives that grew out of the unacceptable increase of school shootings?
[02:56:52] Sue Burton: I don't believe that teachers should have a gun in school. I think it's too late to make guns disappear. I think there's too much money involved in the gun selling. I'm trying to figure out I can't even think of a good reason. Not a good reason. I'll take that back. I can't think of any kind of way that they would even think of stop selling guns. Because I can recall seeing a scene and the TV where in the southern part of the United States, they had children out in the backwoods teaching them how to use guns. And I think by this time, those children have to be in their 20s. That was shown on TV years ago. They were teaching those children to use guns. And I mean, 6 and 7 years of age. I'll never forget it. So if you're teaching children that age, why would they want to give up their guns? People don't want to give up their guns for protection of the riches that they have. And I think the main thing is the mentality of the ones that are misusing the guns. I think the who needs help, those that something to do with the mental disease.
[02:58:42] INTERVIEWER: What do you think would be the wisest solution or a better solution to school shooting problem?
[02:58:50] Sue Burton: I think that the best solution is like they're doing when they say speak up, regardless of how minute it might sound, speak up and tell someone that you heard this and even be cautious. You may not hear anyone speak and they might be just preparing to get guns or to the way they feel. As a child it's not good to tell another child you need to go to a doctor. But you need to tell an adult that you suspect and maybe that adult would be kind enough not to say anything. Let the child know that you said anything to her, but just tapped me with the adult will keep an eye out on that particular child or that adult, whoever it might be.
[02:59:47] INTERVIEWER: And then what is your viewpoint on immigration reform?
[02:59:54] Sue Burton: I feel sorry for those that are wanting to stay here. I feel sorry for the president for not wanting them to stay here. Those people have been here for so long, is their home, and I'm also concerned as to that's the south part of town or the west part of town. Who's coming in on the east side of town? There's all different types of relations and Europeans that are coming in from the east side in the Chicago area. They're not saying, don't you come. They just want that particular area, the west side or the southwest people not to not to be here, and I don't think it's right. I think that I don't know how they can be stopped, especially if a president, because the one who's enforcing the law that they should leave. But I just think it's not fair. I think they shouldn't be allowed to stay here. Now, that was what you were asking.
[03:01:14] INTERVIEWER: And so when you see protests and these movements, especially spearheaded by young people, does that kind of remind you of back in the '60s and '50s and that time period when there were so many protests as well?
[03:01:31] Sue Burton: I think it's a great thing. I liked the idea of when the Martin Luther King's granddaughter spoke up because that turned out unfiltered, a little bit of racism. Recognizing, I guess recognition that this would be good if it was not just kids worried about school. But if all those young people that were there, marching considered integration, as well as gun problems. I don't know if I made that clear or not, but I'm proud of the kids. I just think that was so super that all of those children got out there and I'm not even going to give credit to those that decided. I just think that they all were smart enough to join hands and I don't think they're going to stop and I wouldn't want them to. [BACKGROUND]. She's coming from Cuba.
[03:02:47] INTERVIEWER: Yeah, she came from Cuba. She immigrated.
[03:02:50] Sue Burton: Oh, really?
[03:02:51] INTERVIEWER: In the '60s. Yeah.
[03:02:52] Sue Burton: Oh, great. She's going to come here?
[03:02:55] INTERVIEWER: Yeah. She wants to do Legacies.
[03:02:57] Sue Burton: Oh, bless her heart. That's great.
[03:03:02] MALE_4: Do you mind showing us that turtle again? [BACKGROUND].
[03:03:10] Sue Burton: This is [inaudible 03:03:11] like a puzzle. [BACKGROUND]
[03:03:23] [POOR AUDIO SECTION - START]
[03:03:23] Sue Burton: We got him everywhere in my house [LAUGHTER]. No turtles to other store. [LAUGHTER] We were in Traverse City years ago and walked by antique store. In fact, we went into this antique store and just as we were leaving, and just like a corner of the window by the door, sit a little teeny tiny that size of my male turtle, go turtle. I said must be for me, it's got to be for me [LAUGHTER] to be able to spot that when so small.
[03:04:06] INTERVIEWER: Did you get the turtle [LAUGHTER] .
[03:04:11] Sue Burton: I did get the turtle.
[03:04:11] INTERVIEWER: Okay.
[03:04:18] Speaker 9: Yeah. It's cold a donation. They are parody. Yeah. Yeah.
[03:04:34] Sue Burton: That's one of my first things by problem, I can't I can't get nails on what meals.Let me just go certainly from my spreadsheet. Just like a calcium deficiency or somebody like me. There was another problem.
[03:05:06] Sue Burton: There was another advertisement spoke of another type of a medicine or something in GPUs for nails. But the feces they had another name for it.
[03:05:22] Sue Burton: Is it like a nail there? Yes. Yeah.
[03:05:25] Sue Burton: But you can't you can strengthen a nail from here. It's gotta be something from inside. A symbol of hair. You've got to be something from inside.
[03:05:40] Sue Burton: I felt like it was just like it looks like calcium deficiency. This part here now. I can circle the same, That's foot. Same classes and changing right now. Yeah, that's why I was like really quiet.
[03:06:21] Sue Burton: I mean, it doesn't bother me about whatever. But I'm just saying that he's surprised why it is.
[03:06:26] INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
[03:06:37] INTERVIEWER: Maybe like people are just tired because we just came back from the spring break. Time difference on that.
[03:06:46] Sue Burton: Yeah.
[03:06:49] Speaker 7: We got a day off. Saturday, Saturday, and Sunday, like you always do on weekends and back the word pen back to class. No spring breaks at all. Your kids know spring break? No, ma'am. No, ma'am.
[03:07:15] Speaker 9: Christmas? Yeah. I don't think it did.
[03:07:19] Speaker 8: No. Good. Take your course page somehow.
[03:07:49] Speaker 9: It's based on true.
[03:07:56] Speaker 8: Yeah, he betrayed you. Because you're about to play around with patients who just joined. Actually appreciate he's die but she went. Oh, so she had actually, what's her fear?
[03:08:14] Speaker 7: What do you wanna do? You wanna do?
[03:08:15] Speaker 9: And you can ask Dr. Lisa, interested in sociology. So like culture is, and I'm in sociology right now. Let's look at cost here. And so like we learned about how like people who come from different countries, like when they immigrated, immigrants to America, they're just so confused about why were you the things you do like walking the hallways. We don't say hi to each other. Like, Hey, like here in high-school, you don't look up and you're like, Hey, you know, like it, I'll let you know, but it's slightly we get replaced by considering our culture here. Yes, yes. Yes. They didn't know what it done. It was like these three words immigrated from Africa.
[03:09:05] Speaker 9: They didn't know what to do and it wasn't like they eat it and they're just like, This is stupid. I just find it really interesting. Like traveling, stuff like that. That sounds good.
[03:09:19] Speaker 8: Sounds good.
[03:09:24] Speaker 9: Yeah.
[03:09:24] Speaker 7: What do you do when you grow up? Educator educates, delay spores.
[03:09:33] Speaker 9: So yeah, I play soccer high school, so interested a little bit and sports business, marketing and advertising. Oh, making money. Yeah. And also I'm interested in the environmental field. Like your environmental scientists. Oh, really?
[03:09:53] Speaker 7: Oh, that sounds great.
[03:10:01] Speaker 8: I'm a human rights lawyer.
[03:10:04] Speaker 7: Okay. Good. Close to the same type of feeling away.
[03:10:11] Speaker 9: Without using MBB lady. I don't want to be like films, like a phone director. Yeah.
[03:10:20] Speaker 7: I didn't really want to be like our article in the paper. I think Sunday. This one particular woman, black lady that was interested in hiring different people for making a movie set up the scene at Detroit Free Press. You get that? Anything? I didn't save it for you.
[03:10:40] [POOR AUDIO SECTION - END]
[03:11:09] INTERVIEWER: You said you wanted to repeat. Great. Thank you. Could you repeat what you we're talking about Trump putting troops in the border.
[03:11:21] Sue Burton: I think I was probably saying that they needed to stay where they were to protect our country in case we need it for protection from our country. I think it's just a waste of time and money to move them from their position. I think it's more important for them to stay where they're stationed in case that there should be anytime of a harm or something come to the United States that instead of guarding empty spaces and empty miles that the troops should stay and be prepared to protect our country.
[03:12:17] INTERVIEWER: Then, how do you feel about Dakar?
[03:12:23] Sue Burton: Well, that's along the same thing. I think that they should be allowed to stay here. They are Americans. Especially if they're born here, they're Americans. Whether born here or not they're still Americans. I think it's sinful to think that they should be sent out of this country, I think it's just sinful. Many of us are here because we don't want to be here, and we settled in and stayed and there's there so many that want to be here, and let's just say that wanted to be here. I think because they have the financial, what's the word I want to use? I can't think of the word I want to use. But anyway, they're financially taken care of so they can afford to live here that way. The Dakar children love this country and to have some of their parents having to leave is horrible thing. Also, I don't think that there's too many people in this United States that live here that would like the idea of being shoved out of the country because of some reason that one particular person is not happy about it.
[03:14:10] INTERVIEWER: We're concerned about the increase in anxiety and depression among teens. What advice would you give to young people today in terms of dealing with the challenges in their life?
[03:14:28] Sue Burton: Would you repeat that, please?
[03:14:31] INTERVIEWER: Sure. We're concerned about the increase in anxiety and depression among teens, so what advice would you give to young people today in terms of dealing with the challenges in their life?
[03:14:44] Sue Burton: I do believe this, I think they ought to go to church. I'm serious. I think that they ought to go to church and to be amongst people that are willing to help them if needed. I think they also, even though there's a learning system in the church about the Bible, I still think there's also a learning system that being with others and respecting each other, it has a lot to do with helping children. Especially if they have some type of a mental problem and they don't know how to handle it. I just believe they should. Certainly there's nothing wrong with going to Sunday School and learning from each other. I think that's one of the things that the young people should start doing and continue.
[03:15:45] INTERVIEWER: Do you have any advice for teens for social activists like heading [inaudible 03:15:52] [NOISE] ?
[03:15:56] Sue Burton: I think if they have a desire to be a leader, I think they should continue. They should go to it. If they have any friends that have a desire to follow or want to work with the particular person, I think this is what they should do. I think they should probably also get advice from an adult that might be familiar with what they want to do or how they want to do it. I think it's time for young people to sell older people the right way of living with each other and treating each other. I think if the young people saw that now then they're going to pass it on over the years, the good things in life
[03:16:57] INTERVIEWER: Any other?
[03:17:02] Sue Burton: Is that okay?
[03:17:04] INTERVIEWER: Yeah, that was amazing.
[03:17:09] Sue Burton: When do you get to see this?
[03:17:11] INTERVIEWER: We're going to be now editing this and doing all that stuff. I think that next week we have the scanning party.
[03:17:25] MALE_5: Do you know the [inaudible 03:17:25].
[03:17:27] INTERVIEWER: I do not know about [inaudible 03:17:28]. I emailed it to you. I can email it to you again also that might refresh your memory.
[03:17:36] Sue Burton: What was this you're saying?
[03:17:39] MALE_5: The scanning party.
[03:17:40] Sue Burton: Scanning?
[03:17:41] INTERVIEWER: Yes. Scanning party.
[03:17:41] Sue Burton: What's that about?
[03:17:44] MALE_5: The scanning party is when we ask you to bring in artifacts or different things [OVERLAPPING].
[03:17:50] INTERVIEWER: Like photos.
[03:17:50] Sue Burton: Really, a lot of them.
[03:17:52] INTERVIEWER: We're going to make a list and then I'll probably going to email you and see if you had any of those.
[03:18:01] Sue Burton: I have a lot of them. In fact, I had an envelope now, took it out. I was going to bring it and I said, no, you don't need that. No, [LAUGHTER] now I do, [inaudible 03:18:10] to do because started running across things and to think that in terms of, don't get upset, think in terms of funerals. Because when my husband passed, my daughter had gotten to the board, had all the pictures and things on it. As a matter of fact, they had a picture of me sitting and my husband had his head onto my lap like this because I was carrying my daughter. But when I saw that picture day, I thought I'm going to find some old pictures and just in case you needed them. That's a good thing, ma'am. I got lots and you can choose from which you want.
[03:18:54] INTERVIEWER: Thank you so much [BACKGROUND] .
[03:19:08] Sue Burton: I said that I had to do this things. [LAUGHTER] [NOISE] [BACKGROUND]
[03:19:24] INTERVIEWER: Thank you so much for taking the time and being on this [BACKGROUND] [inaudible 03:19:53]
[03:19:53] Sue Burton: This was the night before football game missions [inaudible 03:19:57] the last game and I had to walk out, but anyway, they had a party and Jerry [inaudible 03:20:03] play football together. Then Jerry still living, but they wanted to dedicate my husband together since they were buddies and they're both co-stimulation in something past, not these buttons,so I stick them on my hand.
[03:20:21] MALE_6: That's really cool [inaudible 03:20:22]
[03:20:22] INTERVIEWER: I like that you're happy. [BACKGROUND]
[03:20:23] MALE_6: Do you watch that championship game?
[03:20:29] Sue Burton: Laura was everything [inaudible 03:20:31] I can't believe. Did you this guy? [inaudible 03:20:37] Thank you.
[03:20:43] INTERVIEWER: Goodbye. Thank you.
[03:20:56] MALE_6: Goodbye. Thank you.
[03:20:59] FEMALE_2: She wasn't in there.
[03:21:03] INTERVIEWER: It's time to [inaudible 03:21:04] cellphones, pagers or anything else that beeps trying to authorize makes noise. You can call for a break anytime, it's common. Also you terminate or can decline to answer any question or terminate the interview at any time for anyone's good. Good morning everybody.
[03:21:31] Sue Burton: Good morning.
[03:21:31] INTERVIEWER: Really I enjoy learning about you [inaudible 03:21:41] You mentioned in a past interview your parents got divorce. How did the divorce impacted your life?
[03:21:48] Sue Burton: It impact my life as far as school is concerned. I was a senior well, sophomores and junior, senior during that time. I made it too. I was a senior in high school and I faulted on the last year. I completed my school papers and things but I didn't graduate from school.
[03:22:22] INTERVIEWER: Did it affect you mentally, personally or was it mostly just school?
[03:22:29] Sue Burton: Definitely it was personally. I guess you'd say mentally because I was hurt to know that what was going on in the family, but still being loved by both parents, so that wasn't a problem there. Also being loved by the aunts and uncles, especially on my mother's side.
[03:22:51] INTERVIEWER: You mentioned that you lived in a small town growing up by. Your parents getting divorced from small towns, did that impact you?
[03:22:58] Sue Burton: Everyone in town knew that was no problem there. For gossip that was a good thing probably, but as, again, it didn't. To know that people who were talking about my parents, hurt. Because there were times when kids would make smart remarks. But it was all due to my mother's mental health because she was going through the change and I think that made a great difference in how all of us in our family lived.
[03:23:35] INTERVIEWER: At what age did you start going to church on regular basis?
[03:23:39] Sue Burton: Oh, my goodness. I start going church maybe like six, Sunday school church.
[03:23:49] INTERVIEWER: How did your church community support you during the tiring times in your life like the divorce?
[03:23:55] Sue Burton: All adults were nice to all of us, so that was no problem how were we being treated.
[03:24:01] INTERVIEWER: Go ahead.
[03:24:05] Sue Burton: Whether it was church members or not, we were treated nice as far as the adults were concerned.
[03:24:12] INTERVIEWER: How has your church community influence your personal development?
[03:24:17] Sue Burton: I just enjoyed being in church. I love music and I just loved being with other children at that time. We had Sunday schools and lot of activity during that time and they just kept me busy as far as church is concerned.
[03:24:33] INTERVIEWER: If you can say, what are some blessing that can you learned due going to church?
[03:24:39] Sue Burton: Blessings?
[03:24:39] INTERVIEWER: Or lessons.
[03:24:40] INTERVIEWER: Lessons? I learned a lot of lessons from some adults, because as I said before, they were kind to me. I know that for a fact that my sister and my baby sister and I were more affected because we were home and my older brother and my older sister were not at home anymore. It took a big effect on us. I think that I learned how to be kind to people or children, especially because we had a lot of poor families that came into our town and lot of kids made fun of them and I think I learned from being made fun of that I knew how to treat the other kids better.
[03:25:29] INTERVIEWER: What was it like growing up as an African-American during the 40s and 50s?
[03:25:36] Sue Burton: It was great. We lived in the integrated town, and as I've probably said before, the only objections to Whites was that Blacks did not go to the swimming pool. Then there was the restaurants that were like two or three blocks from where you live so you could care less about going there. Really, I don't think too much was a problem for the kids and not wanting to go swimming pool either.
[03:26:08] FEMALE_2: I'm going to have you stop. We have a few people who need to come in and get things. Sorry. Are you like in the middle of sentence?
[03:26:17] Sue Burton: I think [inaudible 03:26:17].
[03:26:18] INTERVIEWER: Hi.
[03:26:18] MALE_6: I'm so sorry.
[03:26:19] INTERVIEWER: It's okay. We get [OVERLAPPING]
[03:26:20] MALE_6: Remember where you were.
[03:26:21] Sue Burton: Yeah. No problem. I'll be fine.
[03:26:23] MALE_6: Keep it from anything.
[03:26:25] FEMALE_2: Are you kidding? Here, the tripod need you over here.
[03:26:32] Sue Burton: [LAUGHTER] You don't have to be applied to solve now.
[03:26:38] INTERVIEWER: Yeah. It's fine.
[03:26:40] FEMALE_2: That's perfect. At the bottom side sit.
[03:26:52] Sue Burton: I can't remember.
[03:26:56] INTERVIEWER: I'm just going to ask the question, overdoing [OVERLAPPING].
[03:26:58] Sue Burton: It and erase it or whatever.
[03:27:01] INTERVIEWER: What was it like growing up as an actor mentioned during the 40s and 50s.
[03:27:05] Sue Burton: That's what we were talking about before. All is well, we gave respect I just say as a child, we gave respect to all adults where there was a town drunk or a policeman or the mailman. We obeyed. It was part of our learning live in a small town that she disrespected all adults and you obeyed them and they sometimes had you made your mind. If you were doing something wrong they knew exactly who the parents were and they could I let them know before it even got an old sometimes it up. I'm saying that because my brother was the re-scaling the family. That's how this part of living in Oxford. As I said before, you knew everyone, just about everyone. That just didn't seem to be any problems far as racism, things like that, were concerned.
[03:28:12] INTERVIEWER: We talked in the fall, it was clear to us that you loved her husband very much. If you're comfortable, we like to ask you how your family and Jewish community have supported you during that time your husband passed.
[03:28:29] Sue Burton: I just got a lot of phone calls and a lot of letters and a lot of flowers and things like that during that particular time. A lot of folks and where we came from, we're not aware that he had passed. Once they learned, then we got a lot more phone calls. I would say it was like a family to all the people that we grew up with, labor our family, and it was obvious that they were hurt to learn about him passing. For me to be supported was way more than I expected. That goes just from our hometown folks and from here, this area.
[03:29:23] INTERVIEWER: How is living Good to The Great Depression affected the way you manage your financial life.
[03:29:29] Sue Burton: I didn't have that problem. I was born during that time and that would have been my fathers. From what I can recall, we'd never wanted for anything or not. My brother and I who was passed and now we used to talk about that all the time that we didn't realize that there was a depression and how that affected people's lives. I should say. We didn't realize that until we became adults.
[03:29:59] INTERVIEWER: How their experiences with racial discrimination affected the way you treat others.
[03:30:07] Sue Burton: I really feel sorry for those that have eight or dislike for other people. I don't dislike anyone. I don't like the things that some people say or do and I wouldn't do that, but I can't hate people. Just something that makes you feel bad if you do. I don't allow that to happen to me. Like I said before, I feel sorry for people who had that feeling in their mind to dislike someone because of the color of their skin. Or some people, because they're poor. That people don't like other people because they're poor. There's a lot to recognize when it comes to being racist. It could be just disliking people because they don't have what you have or because of color of your skin.
[03:31:16] INTERVIEWER: What is your viewpoint about the Black Lives Matter?
[03:31:22] Sue Burton: That's all new to me to a point. I know that a lot of people go through some terrible things and there's a lot that we've not gone through. We might have run into some types of racism or whatever it might be. But I think that I'm proud of those people standing up and speaking out.
[03:31:54] INTERVIEWER: What is your viewpoint on the reason March for our lives? They drew and unacceptable increase of school shootings?
[03:32:02] Sue Burton: Well, I think that's so sad and I do believe that except for the policemen, the local sheriffs and police aware of my colored soldiers, army. I think they're the only ones that should have any type of iron weapon. Any type of a weapon.
[03:32:30] INTERVIEWER: What is your viewpoint on immigration reform?
[03:32:35] Sue Burton: That upsets me to no end? I don't think is fair. I don't think that people should be forced to leave a free country, supposed to be free. I don't like the idea of those that are responsible for helping these people or turning their backs on them. That's the way I feel about it.
[03:33:04] INTERVIEWER: Do you have any advice for any young activists or for the next-generation with this current issues?
[03:33:13] Sue Burton: If a young person, whoever might be things that you want to do or say it is truthful and should be allowed to be free. I think that whoever it might be, just stand up. If there's a group that's already standing up, join them, and put yourself in someone else's place. That's the one we're supporting, is to join a group that's sincere.
[03:33:47] INTERVIEWER: Do have anything you wanted to add. Interview or anything else you want to say.
[03:33:57] Sue Burton: I'm not particularly happy about to something that can be eliminated or I'm not so happy about talking about my mother living with my grandparents, with her mother. I think that those who live because they're ailing and helping her, I think the way I might've said it didn't sound good. I think that my mother did go to my grandmother's and because her sister also live in that town and that was to help her to be healed because like I said, she was going through the change at that particular time. No, there's no way for a child to know what's going on until you get to be a certain age, then you understand that all of the things that you thought were wrong or right, it could be right. All the things that are right could be wrong. Just something that you learn as you become an adult. I didn't like the way I said that because my mother wanted us to stay with daddy and he provided her with a certain amount of money, but she wanted us to stay because daddy could afford it. We could stay home, had our own bedrooms and go to the same school and everything without having to move. That's the reason for that change.
[03:35:27] Sue Burton: Thank you so much. [OVERLAPPING] [LAUGHTER]. I'm happy to do that. Know what happens next?
[03:35:38] MALE_7: There is scanning your item vote, go back and we'll see how far they are [OVERLAPPING] late to the finished scanning. No, We can walk in if you want to see what.
[03:36:01] Sue Burton: Last time.
[03:36:02] INTERVIEWER: I'd break.
[03:36:03] Sue Burton: That's what it is. Make it look smaller even though. [OVERLAPPING]
[03:36:12] INTERVIEWER: They couldn't cover it on my face.
[03:36:16] Sue Burton: I take that back.

Media

2022

Length: 03:36:15

Copyright: Creative Commons (Attribution, Non-Commercial, Share-alike)

Rights Held by: Ann Arbor District Library

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Legacies Project